Making that Bullet Collator

[6bg6ga]

Maybe Rick will hire you and finally get a decent running collator. On second thought....no we would loose a good member and a viable source of good information.

Its just amazing that a company has to charge so much for something. I unfortunately purchased a MBF bullet dropper for 45 cal. At somewhere around $100 or more(can't remember now) it worked no better than the cheaper RCBS units that I purchased for 9mm and 40 cal. I bought both of them for less than what I spent for the MBF dropper.

[Tazza]

I too feel the MBF system is a bit too expensive for what it is (that's why i haven't bought one), but i do understand that he needed to get a profit for the time and money he spent developing it, which is fair. We see it a lot over here, there are people in the shooting community that seem to price them selves out of the market. Keep it to a reasonable price, people will come back and tell their friends, charge too much and they will also tell their friends, but not return.

[6bg6ga]

There is a difference between a fair amount of profit and being just plain over priced. I would assume the MBF unit is injection molded and as such is very inexpensive to manufacture. There are several ways to go about this. Buy the molds to make it in house or simply farm it out to another manufacturer and use their tools and expertise to manufacture it. Maybe your talking around 8-10K for the molds to do this and farm it out. Figure a start up of say 10K and your talking adding $1 per unit, 5k units and your talking $2 per unit. 1K units and your talking $10 per unit. Any plastics house would be able to do the work and happy to undertake it. If you figured $50 per unit the cost of the materials, time, and cost per unit to recoup for the dies this is still excessive. Take this $50 and add the cost of the motor in quantity add another $15.00 now your up to $65 per unit and add say another $15 for assembly and your looking at a whopping $80 per unit. Take this times 500%+ and that is about the profit margin MBF has.

This why we like to DIY......Thanks again Mike.

[Tazza]

I do agree, i guess some people just look at the fact it's their design/product and if you want it, you will pay for it. I feel it's wrong, but hey, it's not my design that i'm trying to turn a profit on. It would be nice to have a product everyone wants that you make good money on, you can sit back and do nothing and let the money roll in

[AmmoMike83]

There is a difference between a fair amount of profit and being just plain over priced. I would assume the MBF unit is injection molded and as such is very inexpensive to manufacture. There are several ways to go about this. Buy the molds to make it in house or simply farm it out to another manufacturer and use their tools and expertise to manufacture it. Maybe your talking around 8-10K for the molds to do this and farm it out. Figure a start up of say 10K and your talking adding $1 per unit, 5k units and your talking $2 per unit. 1K units and your talking $10 per unit. Any plastics house would be able to do the work and happy to undertake it. If you figured $50 per unit the cost of the materials, time, and cost per unit to recoup for the dies this is still excessive. Take this $50 and add the cost of the motor in quantity add another $15.00 now your up to $65 per unit and add say another $15 for assembly and your looking at a whopping $80 per unit. Take this times 500%+ and that is about the profit margin MBF has.

This why we like to DIY......Thanks again Mike.

My pleasure, Joe! I agree btw. It took me 6 month to develop and another 4 month to improve and make all the stuff to make it public and people able to create it on their own.

I do agree, i guess some people just look at the fact it's their design/product and if you want it, you will pay for it. I feel it's wrong, but hey, it's not my design that i'm trying to turn a profit on. It would be nice to have a product everyone wants that you make good money on, you can sit back and do nothing and let the money roll in

Do you want to buy a license of the OBF?

[jmorris]

@320 grams for the base plate it's about 2 maybe 3 bucks of filament costs. If that's too much for you. Go and buy a Mr. Bulletfeeder :P

Not about cost really it has already been pointed out that it would be more expensive and among the bullet collators I have built in the past I actually do have a factory MBF collator. I was looking at it from a time and more importantly, strength perspective.

There are epoxies out there that are much stronger than the base material we are using not to mention not being “layers” when cured.

Kind of like the one Hatch was messing with that fell apart, had that just been a hollow mold but filled with any number of epoxies, it wouldn’t have done that.

[AmmoMike83]

Not about cost really it has already been pointed out that it would be more expensive and among the bullet collators I have built in the past I actually do have a factory MBF collator. I was looking at it from a time and more importantly, strength perspective.

There are epoxies out there that are much stronger than the base material we are using not to mention not being “layers” when cured.

Kind of like the one Hatch was messing with that fell apart, had that just been a hollow mold but filled with any number of epoxies, it wouldn’t have done that.

We discussed that several times. If it would have been printed as advised with the correct infill, there are no issues. I put 2 pounds of jacketed lead bulltes in my collator with 80% infill. No issues. If you want to test, print a square with 3 mm height and 80% infill and try to break it.

[HATCH]

80% is a very fine mesh type fill.
It is very strong.



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[AmmoMike83]

Here are some impressions from the bolt through mount.

[6bg6ga]

Looks good

[Tazza]

Really does look good.

[AmmoMike83]

Thanks!
I am thinking about to change the wall height a bit from 90 mm to 110 or 120mm. Any opinions?
There is a nice top cover online from hunkas https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2832323 btw.

[6bg6ga]

I'd leave it as is.

[jmorris]

That would make it closer to the current MBF.

When I built mine I didn’t see any reason to make the walls “square” as due to the operating angle and gravity, there is no reason to make the front taller than the back.

I used PVC pipe for the walls on them and one angle cut made two parts that also used up less material. Makes the top of the bullet collator level, just like the case collators.

[AmmoMike83]

That would make it closer to the current MBF.

When I built mine I didn’t see any reason to make the walls “square” as due to the operating angle and gravity, there is no reason to make the front taller than the back.

I used PVC pipe for the walls on them and one angle cut made two parts that also used up less material. Makes the top of the bullet collator level, just like the case collators.

That one in the middle looks best
I uploaded the design with higher walls.

[jmorris]

Mike, any chance I could get you to design another spring housing?

I printed out the small one and it’s too big for the little 380 bullets I am using.

The .600 drop hole in the collator I think is ok but the spring housing is .800 on the big end and everynow and then the bullet gets sideways.

The hole kind of needs to be off set and clocked with the bolt pattern.

How hard would it be to creat a “blank” that has the flange with bolt pattern but solid with no hole so the taper/through hole could be machined?

It could even fit up inside the collator from the bottom, so untouched could act as the plug for nose down collating.

[Mark2215]

I designed a spring housing for smaller bullets because I was having the same problem. If you want I can send it to you this afternoon when I get home.

[jmorris]

Thanks but I realized the flaw in what I was wanting, I noticed there is a chamfer on the inside this morning when I took another look at it.

So I just drilled the base out to 3/4” and turned down a section of 1 inch UHMW to 3/4 so it drops in to the shoulder.

Then drilled the drop hole so it is lined up with the bullet plate. To simplify machining and time it takes to swap, I drilled and tapped a 10-32 hole in the side of the base plate to hold it in place. That will keep me from breaking off any more of the #2 brass screws I used to hold on the original housing, I know, they were all I had on hand.

[AmmoMike83]

Mike, any chance I could get you to design another spring housing?

I printed out the small one and it’s too big for the little 380 bullets I am using.

The .600 drop hole in the collator I think is ok but the spring housing is .800 on the big end and everynow and then the bullet gets sideways.

The hole kind of needs to be off set and clocked with the bolt pattern.

How hard would it be to creat a “blank” that has the flange with bolt pattern but solid with no hole so the taper/through hole could be machined?

It could even fit up inside the collator from the bottom, so untouched could act as the plug for nose down collating.

Sure. No problem. Do you still need it?
It's uploaded on thingiverse.

[jmorris]

Thanks, I think I have this one about done.

The drop tube I printed off didn’t fit the switch I had and wasn’t sure how I was going to attach it to the feed die I am using for these bullets.

So I just took a couple more pieces of plastic and milled a slot for the switch arm, a pocket for the body and a groove for a zip tie tohold it there. Then some clear tube to attach it to the part that is a press fit onto the Hornady feed die.