Making that Bullet Collator

[lablover]

Think I found my issue. New Collater plate is done and its hanging up again...Grrrr...What I found might be the issue. I have been using the large pistol bullet plate and also created one in openscad. I've been using the default shaft size and width for roll pin. Come to find out that my shaft diameter is 7.5 and the roll pin is 21.96 in width. So, that leaves a lot of play in the plate moving around the pin. I knew I should have went hex on this motor but it was already drilled and had a roll pin installed. Having that extra play allows the plate to move further away from the bowl walls and allows bullets to sneak in sideways........I think. I will tighten up those specs and print yet another plate and see what happens.

[TylerR]

Think I found my issue. New Collater plate is done and its hanging up again...Grrrr...What I found might be the issue. I have been using the large pistol bullet plate and also created one in openscad. I've been using the default shaft size and width for roll pin. Come to find out that my shaft diameter is 7.5 and the roll pin is 21.96 in width. So, that leaves a lot of play in the plate moving around the pin. I knew I should have went hex on this motor but it was already drilled and had a roll pin installed. Having that extra play allows the plate to move further away from the bowl walls and allows bullets to sneak in sideways........I think. I will tighten up those specs and print yet another plate and see what happens.

That makes sense. If there is a lot of play between the motor shaft and hole the plate will definitely move around. Looking at your picture, I would also reduce the diameter of the holes in the collator plate to something like 10.5-11mm. That will reduce the chance of those short bullets ending up sideways.

You would laugh if you saw my pile of old collator plates that are no good. Probably around 15 or so.

[lablover]

That makes sense. If there is a lot of play between the motor shaft and hole the plate will definitely move around. Looking at your picture, I would also reduce the diameter of the holes in the collator plate to something like 10.5-11mm. That will reduce the chance of those short bullets ending up sideways.

Good call. I was almost ready to hit print...LOL

EDIT:
I cant believe I didn't catch that the first time. I could hear the plate going boink boink boink and was wondering why. Caught it this time. One size does not fit all for sure. I dropped the hole size to 11mm and will see what happens. Might have to have a different plate for every bullet I shoot...LOL

[lablover]

Tyler, I'm confused... I printed the 9MMS drop tube tonight and in Cura I'm certain there was an outer wall around the top at the locking mechanism. But the print I am posting shows open?

Maybe my 1mm nozzle couldn't figure it out, or the file changed?

Sent from my SM-A102U using Tapatalk

I just printed the same tube and it printed fine. Thats with the latest Tyler upload. Just FYI

[TylerR]

Might have to have a different plate for every bullet I shoot...LOL

I sure hope not! But it is nice to know the option is always there to customize to your exact need. And I appreciate all the feedback on these issues, because maybe the stock settings could be tweaked to be more reliable with a wider range of bullet designs. For instance, right now that generator adds 1.2mm to the base caliber diameter. Perhaps that should be reduced to .8-1.0mm. The result would be less play for the bullet in the hole. Only downside is bullets may not fall in the holes as easily or quickly as they do with the larger setting.

[lablover]

In my experience, a lot of factors can cause hangs in the bullet drop area. Speed, size and shape of the drop hole, friction between bullet and base surface, and of course base angle.

You might have noticed that I was feeding my nose down design pretty darn fast.....it didn't happen without a lot of trial and error (plenty of error).

I finally got out my Dremel tool and black epoxy putty and started grinding in front of the drop hole. I didn't really increase the size of the hole itself, but it cut out the base 1/2" the direction of the coming bullets, down to the first layers of the base, and smoothed it out with epoxy putty. And really smoothed out the putty after it was past the sticky stage, with a wet finger. (to make it really smooth with no bumps, ridges. My next base printout will have that built-in.)

Why do all that? Because the bullet just couldn't drop fast enough to get out of the way of the next wall to wall bind. This allows the bullet to pre-drop half way....slide a half inch at the lower level, then drop quickly at speed.

The important part of the modification is it has to be glossy smooth or the bullet might fall sideways (being point down and unstable) and jam. I would expect less of that tendency base down. Just food for thought, and it sure worked for me. Base angle for my application was only 20 degrees, more in this case cause more problems. Base down is another matter.

I'll get out my camera today and take a picture of the modified drop.

Wow, you have that thing cruising!
I’ve never had much luck with lubed cast bullets. May have to revisit that as I favor my own cast over most anything else.

[o416]

Hi Tyler!

Did anybody try the JGY motor with your design? You mentioned that it was too weak to drive it, but I was wondering if that was based on actual testing.

Thx!

[GWS]

I haven't printed Tylers big base model yet, but based on my experience with the original size, it might slow down with a big load a little. I say that based on watching it slow down a little when lots of bullets are loaded and interaction between them cause extra friction.

On the other hand, when I was having issues with binds at speed at the drop hole like lablover was, (which encouraged me to modify the drop hole area) my little JGY motor just stopped.....I rushed over and cut the power, not being willing to burn motor out. Such happened several times until I made the fix in the base, but neither was the motor was hurt, nor did it wreck anything like the more powerful motor did with lablover. that's got to be a plus. My project uses the hex motor connection, not the pin.

I'm wondering, if my ears are so bad I couldn't hear the motor humming, or could that motor have it's own disconnect when the load goes too high? Sorry I couldn't tell, as wasn't willing to wait for the motor to burn out.

I too am curious as to whether the little motor was actually tested on the big plate, and found wanting.

[lablover]

New plate worked great. No jams but still get a few bullets that don’t want to flip. Not a huge deal as nothing is 100% with these things. I think a slight modification to the ski ramp would help. I’ll try to get a video later today or tomorrow

[j_dude77]

TylerR,

I know you said you were going to work on rifle calibers eventually. I just wanted to let you know I printed the feeder and got it up and running. I used openscad to make a 556 plate. I used that plate and the Pistol_Bullet_Slide_Feed_Nose_Up plate and it worked fine. I just had to back the slide away from the base about 2mm. I am using 55gr fmjbt bullets, so with a flat base might not need the adjustment. Just thought you should know. Now I just need to figure out how to get the plate to stay in that spot. I know ammomike used a set screw.

**UPDATE** So using the normal hole multiplier of 1.5 proved to be too much. It would drop 2 to 3 bullets before the motor shut off completely. This would cause a jam at the top of the drop tube. I am in the process of printing a plate with a hole multiplier of 2.5. I will let you guys know how it turns out.

[lablover]

Tyler

I ran this slower than usual so I could record my issue. Not sure if you can do anything with the flipper plate or the ski ramp To eliminate the bullets not always turning. I hope this video captures my issue. I have the BF on my workbench at a pretty good angle as well. Does the same thing mounted to the press.

[TylerR]

Hi Tyler!

Did anybody try the JGY motor with your design? You mentioned that it was too weak to drive it, but I was wondering if that was based on actual testing.

Thx!

I did not actually print one and test it. I would say GWS pretty much hit the nail on the head. It would work for the most part, but I can say with confidence there will be a large speed difference between a full hopper and one mostly empty. If you are willing to test it out, its probably worth a try.

[TylerR]

TylerR,

I know you said you were going to work on rifle calibers eventually. I just wanted to let you know I printed the feeder and got it up and running. I used openscad to make a 556 plate. I used that plate and the Pistol_Bullet_Slide_Feed_Nose_Up plate and it worked fine. I just had to back the slide away from the base about 2mm. I am using 55gr fmjbt bullets, so with a flat base might not need the adjustment. Just thought you should know. Now I just need to figure out how to get the plate to stay in that spot. I know ammomike used a set screw.

**UPDATE** So using the normal hole multiplier of 1.5 proved to be too much. It would drop 2 to 3 bullets before the motor shut off completely. This would cause a jam at the top of the drop tube. I am in the process of printing a plate with a hole multiplier of 2.5. I will let you guys know how it turns out.

This is excellent feedback, thank you!

Question on the slide plate position. Did you set the distance of the slide by putting a screw in the back like I suggest, and its moving around on its own from that spot?

[TylerR]

Tyler

I ran this slower than usual so I could record my issue. Not sure if you can do anything with the flipper plate or the ski ramp To eliminate the bullets not always turning. I hope this video captures my issue. I have the BF on my workbench at a pretty good angle as well. Does the same thing mounted to the press.

I love video, makes it so much easier to understand the issue. Two things come to mind right away. First of all, the issue you are having would definitely be made worse the more angle you have on the feeder. So have you tried going to the other extreme with as little angle as possible? Second, what happens if you pull the slide plate out just slightly, so that the bullet is hitting the ramp higher up? If you pull it out too far the nose down bullets won't fall off the ridge, but there may be some room there to play around. Also, if that works for you, I can maybe post a new plate stl file that hits the ramp higher up and you can try it out.

[lablover]

I love video, makes it so much easier to understand the issue. Two things come to mind right away. First of all, the issue you are having would definitely be made worse the more angle you have on the feeder. So have you tried going to the other extreme with as little angle as possible? Second, what happens if you pull the slide plate out just slightly, so that the bullet is hitting the ramp higher up? If you pull it out too far the nose down bullets won't fall off the ridge, but there may be some room there to play around. Also, if that works for you, I can maybe post a new plate stl file that hits the ramp higher up and you can try it out.

Great minds think alike. I did pull the plate out just a bit and it helped a little but still has the issue. If I come out just a bit too far then the bullets won’t flip at all. I also tried different angle but no luck. I have no issues printing and testing anything you come up with.

I figured the video would explain it perfectly...hahaha

[TylerR]

Great minds think alike. I did pull the plate out just a bit and it helped a little but still has the issue. If I come out just a bit too far then the bullets won’t flip at all. I also tried different angle but no luck. I have no issues printing and testing anything you come up with.

I figured the video would explain it perfectly...hahaha

I just posted a different version of the large pistol slide. I moved the edge out 2mm, so it hits right at the middle of the ramp. If there is consensus this makes it more reliable for these short hollow points, I will make it a permanent change. Please try it out and let us know.

[j_dude77]

This is excellent feedback, thank you!

Question on the slide plate position. Did you set the distance of the slide by putting a screw in the back like I suggest, and its moving around on its own from that spot?

I saw the spot for the screw after my original post. I used a #4 screw, it seems to be working good. I occasionally will have one bullet fall base down off the ledge, however it just rides up the ramp and falls back down into the others to be picked up again.

[lablover]

I just posted a different version of the large pistol slide. I moved the edge out 2mm, so it hits right at the middle of the ramp. If there is consensus this makes it more reliable for these short hollow points, I will make it a permanent change. Please try it out and let us know.

will give it a shot..will report back tomorrow
thanks Tyler

[TylerR]

I saw the spot for the screw after my original post. I used a #4 screw, it seems to be working good. I occasionally will have one bullet fall base down off the ledge, however it just rides up the ramp and falls back down into the others to be picked up again.

Excellent! Boat tail will definitely be pickier then flat base. The cure I think would be to move the plate out another half mm or so. Should clear up those occasional mis-drops.
Once I get back at it I will hopefully get a 556 plate/slide combo that will be plug and play.

[TylerR]

will give it a shot..will report back tomorrow
thanks Tyler