ADvertise hereRotoMetals2Inline FabricationGraf & Sons
MidSouth Shooters SupplyLee PrecisionTitan ReloadingStainLess Steel Media

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Tracking Shots for Load development

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358

    Tracking Shots for Load development

    Need a few ideas for tracking shots during load developments that go through a wide swing of velocities. When I develop loads it tends to be large and cover a lot of velocities and the bullets have a lot of drop/rise. For fine tuning a chosen load, a panel of targets in a 3x4 configuration works perfectly. For the large velocity test on a riffles zeroed at 100 yards with a given load ( same bullet, different powder and charge, and velocity) that first shot could be up to 16 inches low (hitting the target that is 2 rows down) and then go really high as the shots progress. This becomes a problem when some groups cause bleed over or cross over. Worst case is when shots miss the target completely because my riffle is zeroed for x bullet going 2500 fps and i tried to hit a target with the same bullet going 1200 fps.

    I have tried playing shot bingo. Take a shot and mark it on a scaled down version of the target with all shots taken at the point of aim. It is a pita looking through a spotting scope for holes smaller than a pencil from 100 yards away. Could i use Quick Loads to estimate velocity and the use a ballistics program to estimate drop or rise to better position targets? Wish i had a target cam but that's too expensive. This is also a public gun range i shoot at so i try to minimize cold ranges as to not be an inconvenience to other shooters.

    I have considered shooting targets at 50 yards to cut drop in half. Searching for information on distances for load development has brought on a hailstorm of online debates and theories with 100 or 200 yards being touted the most informative.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Goodhue County, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,135
    I am not sure if you are familiar with & use Exterior ballistic tables for the bullet/boolit sectional density & ballistic coefficient & velocity to get bullet/drop at certain distances, but that would likely help you with getting yourself into the target if you change velocity &/or bullet/boolit weight/shape/etc. that changes the sect. dens. & ballist. coef.. before you even start to shoot them.

    I could say more about it, but if you are already familiar with using that sort of reference data, then I would be wasting my time.

    If you are not familiar, then I would suggest that you do a bit of looking around & see if you already have some of these tables in some of your manuals( I.E. - Speer #11 here in front of me has them in the back of the manual), or look online to see if you can find what ya need & learn how to use them.
    Easier that , then me trying to explain how to use them.


    For the visibility issues, I would suggest using a "splatter type" target for added visibility of shot impact. I use these since I shoot alone most of the time when doing load development. Lets me stay focused on the shooting & not on looking for impacts & getting frustrated to not be able to see them.

    I use homemade/DIY ones like what GRMPS mentions here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4156179

    I take the sheets & quarter them for close up shots(25yds & less) and use full size (approx. 22" x 28') ones for shotgun & rifle at 50 yd & more. You could always double up 2 full size to 44x28 or 22x56, or something like that, if you were that far off center & need to move your sights/scope to get in smaller.

    G'Luck!
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)
    *------*
    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


    HangFireW8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Posts
    2,153
    Great topic.

    I have QL, but it is of limited use in predicting trajectories that are not based on existing Point of Aim/Point of Impact (POA/POI) data.

    The reason is simple, there are too many other factors affecting POI. Time in barrel, for example, means some medium velocity loads will impact higher than high velocity loads, since the barrel has more time to lift from recoil. But lower the velocity some more, and you have less recoil and the POI comes back down to near where it was for high velocity, except at longer range it'll drop more because of longer time of flight.

    You can work all this out shooting and tracking everything for one load ladder, then change the powder type, and still not accurately predict what will happen to POI shift for your first group in the new load ladder, because of barrel harmonics. (Unless you have a short/heavy bull barrel bench gun, then everything becomes more predictable).

    Despite all these factors, you can use QL to get an idea of what the delta of "come-ups" on your scope or sights will be, once you establish where your short range POI is relative to POA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    I have considered shooting targets at 50 yards to cut drop in half.
    Nothing wrong with 50Y groups, or 25Y, but at those short ranges with some loads, the bullet trajectory may still be rising (relative to the Earth, not bore axis), so you may end up with a different POI than 1/2 of that at 100.

    A 10-shot group at 50Y will probably get you a very good idea what your MOA accuracy at 100 yards will be... unless you are shooting mild loads and longer boolits at the lower end of their stability range. And some of us do a lot of that, this is why shorter boolit molds are so popular, they will be more windage prone, but they maintain stability at lower velocities and longer ranges.

    So that low velocity caveat aside, if I'm shooting 50 yard groups with medium to high velocity cast loads (high being 1800 and up), a large count group 7/8/9/10 and up, the target usually gives me an excellent preview of what a 5 shot group size will likely be at 100y.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    Searching for information on distances for load development has brought on a hailstorm of online debates and theories with 100 or 200 yards being touted the most informative.
    Certainly 100/200Y groups are most informative for developing 100Y and 200Y loads. Part of the reason I got into Cast was to plink at 22LR prices (non-panic-inflated prices that is) with a "real" rifle. So I have 25 Yard loads and 50Y loads with Unique and Red Dot... and there's nothing wrong with that.

    But let's assume you're developing for 100/200, in that case 25Y targets are just to see if you're going to be on the paper (and not wasting ammo) at 50 yards, and 50 Yard targets are just for seeing if you're going to be a.) on the paper at 100, and b.) if group size at 50 means 100/200 is even worth bothering with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    It is a pita looking through a spotting scope for holes smaller than a pencil from 100 yards away.
    The solution here is to buy a Long Eye Relief (LER) eyepiece for your spotting scope. If necessary you may need a better stand. If you can use a short clamp stand at a shooting bench, those have excellent stability and involve less travel to see the view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    Need a few ideas for tracking shots during load developments that go through a wide swing of velocities.
    I am fortunate in that my range has 25/50/100 lanes and 50/100/200 lanes, can use multi-bull targets, and I can set up a cronograph if I want. Some ranges are more restrictive.

    Ideas:
    • I always load more than I need for the group sizes desired. For a load ladder, more on the low end, and maybe also the high.
    • Sighters (as competitors call them) come from the banana shaped eccentric cartridge pile. They're "good enough" for finding POI vs POA.
    • I pick an index point for the day for the banana shaped eccentrics. Up one day, left or right, or down other days. That way I get uniform throat wear. (Of course for concentric cartridges this is not an issue).
    • I always put paper up at 25 and 50 even if a bunch of 100Y groups is my goal for the day.
    • 100Y paper should be as large as possible.
    • Staple up blank paper around/underlapping 100Y paper.
    • Even if you don't have to put up targets, walk downrange every cold range and label groups done or in progress, even individual sighter shots with a bright colored ink pen, which shots belong to which groups/load.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    I am not sure if you are familiar with & use Exterior ballistic tables for the bullet/boolit sectional density & ballistic coefficient & velocity to get bullet/drop at certain distances, but that would likely help you with getting yourself into the target if you change velocity &/or bullet/boolit weight/shape/etc. that changes the sect. dens. & ballist. coef.. before you even start to shoot them.
    Sectional density is a term I see lot. I must admit i don't really know what it means. I feel its important, but i haven't had a need to walk that path and learn. I have an external ballistics excel file. I put all the information in it and tells me drop for a zero with a given bullet and velocity. I used it with conjunction of QL to determine that if i could push my .270 win to 2000 FPS i could easily take shots to 200 yards. I didn't do anything fancy other than compare bullet drops. I learned quick that 400 fps makes huge difference.

    I don't mind looking at the holes through a scope. Its just keeping track of what bullet made which hole. My problem is going to be for my 2400 work ups for .260 rem and .270 Winchester. The velocities are going to run through 1200fps to 2050 fps. The riffles are all ready zeroed with the same bullets going 2050. I started loading a few sighters after my 30-30 development catastrophe. My first time getting so frustrated i almost called it a day at the range.

    A good solution is a target camera, but until the price of that drops to 100 ish bucks i will never buy one. I am tech savy but not good enough to garage engineer a suitable cheap nock off. Then i could shot all shots at one reference point and snap a picture every group then color code the holes later.

    HangFire, thank you for your thoughts. Most of it was what i assumed and you verified it for me. I normaly use cheap wraping paper from the dollar star to cover the bullet hole riddled cardboard and then place my targets over that. I think my best coarse of action is to load up 10 sighters for the lowest velocity, then sight in on a separate target. Its easy to adjust elevation as the shots progress. Versus taking shots pop shots at a closer target. The groups and drop would be half but the groups would be harder to gage and i would have to test at 100 anyways. Either way i am looking at extra steps. But i feel if i shot closer than 100 yards i would loos valuable information and then would have to repeat the test at 100 yards. I also test for groups at 200 yards. I don't shoot 200 yards, but i like to know i can if the random Florida hunting opportunity presents its self. Most of my shots will by 100 yards and most likely a lot less.

    Normaly my range only has one target per a lane. We have 25/50/100/200 lanes. I try to be considerate of others and they let e set up a chrono. We a few members only ranges but i cant help but make a new friend every time i go.

    I appreciate your thoughts and ideas.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Goodhue County, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    Sectional density is a term I see lot. I must admit i don't really know what it means. I feel its important, but i haven't had a need to walk that path and learn.
    This link should help ya understand more about sectional density:
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

    SD is usually only taken into consideration if you are looking to get penetration. I only added it in there as if you were , lets say, planning on using the boolits/bullets for hunting, rather than paper punching, then you would perhaps want to take SD into consideration in your ballistic testing.


    As far as the way you are doing your testing & comparing to the programs, I would think that you are basically doing the same thing as looking at the Ext. Ballistics tables ( Ingalls tables or G1 drag tables). [The Speer manual #11 I mentioned in the earlier post is based on the G1 tables.]

    I just spent a half hour trying to type out what I would do to figure out the bullet/boolit drop for you & I just deleted it. It just seemed too complicated to tell ya what I would do using the tables, so I will try another way to attempt to help. Maybe someone else can chime in & do a better job, but I will try.

    I think that since I know that my rifle was zeroed in at 100 yds using the same boolit/bullet & a particular amount of powder and it was traveling at 2050 fps using that combination of components & I wanted to use the same projectile & run it at 1200 fps, I think I would reverse ladder test down to the 1200 fps velocity & see how each "string" dropped in inches. IOW, If I am using 16gr. of powder & getting 2050 fps, I would make up 5-10 rounds at 15.5, the same at 15.0 then 14.5 and so on, & see how the projectile drops on the target until I reached the "targeted" fps of around 1200 fps. Move the sights as I go & keep track of how much is moved. Then I could stay on the target & later be able to know just where to set the (elevation)drop or rise for the sights/scope, dependent on what velocity I had worked up.

    That way I would be "walking" the projectile down on the paper where I could see it, rather than trying to calculate it by jumping down to that 1200 fps ( or whatever) & then trying to get back up to the Bullseye of the target & not knowing how far up/down to move the sights to get to back on the paper. I would just be doing the reverse & seeing what I needed to do to stay ON the paper..


    I hope I explained that well enough & maybe it would be an option for you to get "on the target" by "staying on the target & working down".

    Geeez, I hope I said that right. I think it would be easier to show, than to say..


    Oh well, I tried...

    As far as visibility & keeping track of which bullet went where, I misunderstood what ya meant & I think I understand ya now & I would just do the same & use a "diary" target(range book) on the bench & mark as I go until I was getting a tight group. I don't know much about these "target camera's you are talking about, but if it keeps track of the shot placement that would be cool.

    Well, G'Luck!, regardless. I tried to help anyway... Best I could do, I reckon.
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)
    *------*
    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western North Dakota
    Posts
    2,678
    As I have no information regarding the ballistic coefficient of most cast bullets, a ballistics program would do little good in most circumstances. Empirical data is the only way to go in my opinion.

    I use a 4'x4' backing board covered with white butcher/freezer paper with a suitably sized black aiming point applied. If the gun/load set up is absolutely new to me, I start with the target placed at 20-30 yards and work out. The holes can be labled and marked or patched over with a smaller piece of freezer paper. When done, the groups can be cut out of the large target and posted in a log book with notes.

    This system is far cheaper than investing in a computer program that does not represent the ballistic coefficient of my bullet and/or expending ammo on a target too small and too far out to hit with each shot.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    860
    I am surprised there's no prevision on ballistic calculators for at least a rough change in poi vs a current zero with a change in load data.
    Example : I load a 30-06 load 168 grain at 2600fps my rifle is zeroed at 200 yards.
    Now I load a cast load I know from trial and error that I need to adjust my sight to the 650 yard mark. I'm sure it can be done?

    Anyhow to the op. Tracking shots during load development requires seeing your shots calculating trajectory needs velocity.
    I use the big rolls of painters masking paper.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Trimaco-...5140/202040749
    I cover the target backer. Our club backers are 30" w 36" t so it fits well.
    I buy one of those large industrial size markers and draw what ever size dot I fell on these targets you can fit many on one paper.... I use 3" at 50 yards. I use 50 yards as its easy to see the holes with my cheap spotter.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cash View Post
    As I have no information regarding the ballistic coefficient of most cast bullets, a ballistics program would do little good in most circumstances. Empirical data is the only way to go in my opinion.
    .
    I use Lee bullets and the give the BC of their bullets on their website.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358
    I am torn right now about starting at 50 yards. I think my club targets are about 3 foot by 3 foot cardboard. That way, not matter what the drop is. It will hit paper. The drop and groups in theory should be half what it is at 100 yards and a quarter of what it should be at 200 yards. With my early test with Reloader 7, the difference in drop from 1650 fps and 2050 fps was around 30 something inches at 200 yards and around 15 inches at 100. Dropping the veolicity another 400 fps i should move up to 50 yard yargets to keep the drop at 15 inches. Then i can place dots across the top of the target spaced evenly apart and move to each dot for each new shot group. Load a few sighters to make sure I print.

    Target cams are pretty cool. I cant justify the 300 bucks for one. They work up to 300 yards away.

    I appreciate everyones thoughts and ideas. I have homemade target I made up in excel that work great and free. Those cheap wrapping papers from the dollar store also normaly have an inch grid on the back which helps measure groups.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Goodhue County, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,135
    If you tell me the BC of the boolit you are using I may be able to use the tables to help you with boolit drop at ranges from 100 to 500 yds in 100 yd increments. I would also need to know what range 100/200/300 your "zero" was at for that rifle. As well as the muzzle velocity you have at muzzle for that same firearm. ( or like 10 ft. away from a chrony)

    With those 3 things I think I can use the tables I have been talking about in the Speer #11 to get the data from them & try to post them here.

    Up to you.
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)
    *------*
    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    2,554
    A lot of cast bullet testing can be done at 50 yards. If the load will not group there, it will not group further out. That allows, less drop to deal with, and less time wasted walking down range.

    Combine that with what JB said about starting at the higher velocity in post 5.

    Not sure why you are working with such a large velocity range at one session. If you want a load at 1600-2000 fps, do that testing on one target or at one session. If working on a plinking load at 1200-1500, do that work on another session and/or Target.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Not sure why you are working with such a large velocity range at one session. If you want a load at 1600-2000 fps, do that testing on one target or at one session. If working on a plinking load at 1200-1500, do that work on another session and/or Target.
    That's what i do. Each powder typical has a window of velocities similar to what you stated. The drop though between 2000 fps and 1400 is quite a lot. The rifle in question is a savage axis 270. win is zeroed at 100 yds with the Lee-277-135-RF of Rx7 velocity is 2050 and BC is .310 (also acceptably accurate at 1650fps with RX7 and 4198). I will be testing loads of 2400 and Red with the same bullet but with a starting velocity of 1250fps. All those are muzzle velocities.

    The rifle is all ready zeroed with one load at a faster velocity. So when switching to a slower load that i have not noted or tested before the first initial shot is going to be of an unknown drop. Like rezeroing the rifle for the first time. Which is what i was trying to avoid. if i could predict the approximate drop.... and i found what i was looking for. Google nicko spot on app. Switch it to hand loads. Punch in the info for what the rifle is zeroed for. Hit the fire. Once the graph shows you can add up to more loads to compare for. Change the other loads B and C to the slower velocities. Change graph to show bullet drop.

    just need to make sure i space the targets out far enough to not cause bleed over incase i get a shot gun pattern. Now i semi know what to expect when i pull the trigger.

    Thanks everyone for their inputs.
    Last edited by Rcmaveric; 02-13-2018 at 07:08 AM.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Capture.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	34.5 KB 
ID:	214110
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Goodhue County, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,135
    The Speer manual I have has .30 BC tables(pg. 571-573) & then it goes to .32 tables (pg.574), and nothing for .31 BC tables in between.
    So, I will not be able to help you out using that resource.
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)
    *------*
    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    2,554
    Splitting the difference between the .30 and .32 data should be close enough.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Goodhue County, Minnesota
    Posts
    1,135
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    Splitting the difference between the .30 and .32 data should be close enough.
    Thanks.

    I thought about that.

    The tables in that manual only go down to 1500 fps. I could extrapolate by taking the average drop between the tables data for both BCs at 2100 & 2000 fps tables ( for the 2050 fps) down to 1500 fps & the use those ave. drop per 100 fps to get down to 1200, but it would only be a WAG/guesstamit, although I'd bet it would be close.

    For a hypothetical example, if the average drop from 2100/2000fps down to 1500 fps, is 2.3 inches per 100, +/-a tenth this way or that @ 100yds & 100yd zero, one could add to the 1500 fps drop(I.E. 16.5 inch) by multiplying the 2.3 x 3 = 6.9 in. + 16.5 in.(@1500 fps) = 23.4 inch drop from center at 1200 fps @ 100yds.. That "should" get someone "in the ballpark", anyway.

    I just took the manual back down to the reloading area, but if Rcmaveric wants, I could do that for him. All I have to do is go down there & do a little "research" & post what I find.

    I will wait to see if he wants me to try for him or not, before I make the effort though.
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)
    *------*
    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    16,091
    A lot of cast bullet testing can be done at 50 yards. If the load will not group there, it will not group further out. That allows, less drop to deal with, and less time wasted walking down range.

    However the converse is not always true, especially with higher velocity loads. With such a good group at 50 yards can mean a mediocre group at 100 yards and a horrible group at 200 yards and beyond.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  18. #18
    Banned

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,386
    About the only time I shoot at 50 yards may be to get a new scope on target, other then that never unless that is the distance I plan at shooting at all the time with a particular gun. A friend told me a long time ago that 100 yards most often doesn't show you the true picture of what your load does, go to 300 yards and it will tell you more. I found that to be true in a lot of cases, but not everyone. I do have loads that shoot very good at 100 and when taken out to 300 did excellent too. Many times bullets need yardage to go to sleep. The gyroscopic action of a bullet spinning isn't trying to destroy it, it's trying to get it straightened out. Depending on how far out a align the bullet is it takes some time and distance to do that, IF it is at all recoverable. Seen a magnum tactical rifle shoot almost 3 inch groups at 100 yards, but at 300 yards it shot 1/2 inch.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    358
    Jb you have done enough for me, i wouldn't wish math on anyone. The graph from Nikon helps me get in the ball park of what i needed to estimate so the first shot isn't a blind shot. That graph shows my first shot should be around 8ish inches lower at 100 yards for 1200 fps than what the rifle is sighted for. A few sighters and ruler and i should be able to figure some thing out to keep the groups orderly enough for record keeping. Standard sheet of paper is 11 inches long. So maybe make some special targets in excel to shoot at that has the POA 8 inches above 2x2 box. Because i really would rather shoot at 100 yards. I was just trying to be lazy and sometimes that's not the best way.

    Now, if i can just verify how far away my laptop can be from my camera and still live stream the pictures I may have a redneck target cam. Beside if i accidently shoot my camera the wife may let me buy a new one.

    I have always wanted to shoot past 200 yards. There isn't a 300+ range near me though so i am limited. I am hunter in Florida so most shots are going to be within inside 100 yards. Any shot passed that is a rare occasion. So in my mind it makes since to just load and practice for what it will be used at. The current load works great at 100 and 200 yards. That gun and load are better in my brothers hands at 200 yards than mine. I think every load should be tuned for the distance it will be shot at. I just want more loads tuned with different powders. I have access to about any powder imaginable.

    A 3 inch group at 100 and .5 group at 300. Sounds like an elliptical flight path induced by too much gyroscopic forces. Once the forces dissipate to a level where all the forces are in harmony the bullet stabilizes on a straight flight path. Still 0-300 yards that bullet can put hole were there needs to be one. I would increase bullet weight and slow it down and see what happens. Or shoot 50 rounds at 100 yards to see if it makes a doughnut group. If I find a load like that i am proving something to myself for the sake of science.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    2,554
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    A lot of cast bullet testing can be done at 50 yards. If the load will not group there, it will not group further out. That allows, less drop to deal with, and less time wasted walking down range.

    However the converse is not always true, especially with higher velocity loads. With such a good group at 50 yards can mean a mediocre group at 100 yards and a horrible group at 200 yards and beyond.
    So true....especially so with cast.

    But by weeding out the obvious poor loads at 50 yards it saves some time. Heck, if I get a bad group at closer ranges with the first three shots, I do not fire the other two. Why waste powder, primers and time. Of course, I have my share of bad karma. Two touching and one 2” out.....want to believe the one out there was me, or a bad bullet and fire the rest....only to get a 4” pattern. Lol.

    All my cast rifle bullet testing starts at shorter ranges. Jacketed at 100 yards.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check