Fillers...?

[john.k]

There are plenty of whingers when you use paper patching if the wind blows the bits back.......so I suspect these same characters would be very obviously picking and blowing fibres from their $4000 scopes if the dacron came out unchanged......and they never keep anything to themselves.

[Larry Gibson]

vzerone

I've no doubt the improper use of Dacron can result in the melting of it. I've no doubt Dacron might help seal the bore with a poorly fitting bullet. I do not advise in the improper use of Dacron as a wad or filler with fast burning powders such as Bullseye and Unique. For the proper use of Dacron as a filler, which is what I always recommend, and what I advise to use is stated in post #2 in the sticky. I also advise to use a properly fitting bullet in rifles, most often one that fits the throat.

All of your arguments, assumptions and opinions simply reinforce my continued suggestion of the proper use of Dacron as a filler. You are quite right that your mentioned improper use results in probable anomalies. A couple other posters also have mentioned anomalies when they used Dacron improperly. Other than pointing out what happens when Dacron is used improperly I'm not sure what your point is.

Like so many things when a Dacron filler is used properly it works. When used improperly it doesn't. Is that so hard to understand?

[Larry Gibson]

There are plenty of whingers when you use paper patching if the wind blows the bits back.......so I suspect these same characters would be very obviously picking and blowing fibres from their $4000 scopes if the dacron came out unchanged......and they never keep anything to themselves.

john.k

Wow.....a $4000 scope.....don't I wish.....

The most expensive scopes I have are the 2 Leupold 6.5x20s and they cost around $700 when I got them. My Kowa spotting scope with 25X eyepiece cost a couple hundred more. I am working on a $2300 Night Force but haven't got there yet. Maybe some day.......

I never said I didn't have to clean any Dacron debris off the lens of the rifle scope or the Kowa......It is necessary often when the wind blows in from 11 to 1 o'clock (or is that 5 to 7 o'clock in old Australia....) Didn't think this "character" needed to mention that since I did mention the debris blew back in my face......the other would seem obvious.......at least it did to me.

[vzerone]

LG

We aren't talking about the proper use of Dacron. You're changing what we're talking about. By we I mean myself and swheeler. What you accuse me and swheeler (he's part of this too) of "all my (our) assumptions, arguements, opinions" even if you don't realize it apply to you too.

I don't agree with your improper use of Dacron can result in melting. It doesn't have to be improper use. Grant you little doses of fast burning powders don't melt it. As a side note I've never seen the BPI shotshell buffer melt. I've seen evidence of it becoming plastic and compacted, but we're not talking about that.

Of course the bullet should fit all areas it's required too. I don't agree with a light dose of Bullseye and jamming the bullet into the cone/leade though. Often bullets require "wiggle room" even if they are very close fitting.

It's very difficult to debate with you because it gets heated on both sides and the moderator then have to intervene. Can't we just discuss all this civil (and I'm not implying that it isn't civil thus far)?

Why are you so against swheeler and myself talking about Dacron?

[vzerone]

How many of you have noticed that there is a difference in the Dacron in items we buy to obtain a source. By that I mean quilt batting (that is what I bought when I used Dacron) stuffed animals, and other stuff items such as small pillows. I've noticed the Dacron like material in stuff animals such as pet toys is different from Dupont's Dacron batting for example. Often the stuffing in those toys is one big ball or quite a few smaller balls and it's very springy and wire like. Most often those stuffed toys are from China. Do you think China uses Duponts Dacron? I don't. Maybe the properties of those are slightly different. We know that their chemical plants have the formula, but that doesn't gaurantee the product they make is exactly the same. BTW I've never bought the stuffed toys to obtain the stuffing, but being I have cats and dogs they destroy them and I became aware of the material inside them.

[Larry Gibson]

vzerone

I am not changing the conversation at all. Your post #32 answered my previous post which was before swheeler got into the conversation and you continued to discuss it with me disagreeing, as usual, with anything I've said. Not against you and swheeler discussing anything but this is a forum open to everyone. You want to have a conversation just between the two of you using PMs would be the place for that. If you post in a thread then it is open for comment from anyone.

And there's nothing heated on "this side". I'm merely pointing out your arguments, assumptions and opinions confirm what I am saying and I failed to see the point you are trying to make. I expected you to make your point a little clearer.....are you saying Dacron, when used properly, is not a good filler? It does appear that's what you're saying/insinuating?

Obviously asking what your point was/is has got you "heated". That was unintentional on "this side" and since my point is made that Dacron, when used properly, is the best filler in my opinion I was just waiting for clarification of your point. Apparently you don't wish to clarify your point so you can discuss Dacron all you want with whomever you want......I'll leave it to you.

[vzerone]

LG

No I'm not heated at all, no problem there. I actually laughed.

So let me clarify my point you speak of. Not for one second am I saying that Dacron isn't a good filler because it is. We're talking about the "whys" it does what it does and also about things that we may not know it does. So clear now?

Let me talk about calling it a filler. First a reloading story to put my point more into perpective. They make a collar button bullet for the 45-70 and as you can imagine it's very light for that round. You load it with a very very tiny amount of W231 powder (and let me make it clear the new W231 and HP38 won't work). Then you cut wads from the styrofoam egg cartons are made from. You place this wad a precise certain amount distance away from the top of the powder by using a wood dowel cut the precise length to position it. I imagine if you weigh that styrofoam wad it's probably lighter then the Dacron filler you use. That wad is not a filler, it is a powder positioner!!! My point is that you are wrong in calling Dacron a filler and I imagine it became to be called that because one "fills" the empty part of the case with it. It's a powder positioner Larry!!!! A filler is more along the lines of BPI shotshell buffer, cream o wheat, Grex, etc. They have way more mass and weight then Dacron. Those are fillers!

Why is it you always say "your arguments, assumptions and opinions" as though what I say is wrong? Or to make it look that way. Like I've said before you have "your arguments, assumptions and opinions" too!

You twist things too. You said accused you of changing the conversation. What I said was you were talking about the proper use of Dacron and we weren't. We were talking about it melting, it blowing out of the barrel in shreds, it blowing out pretty staying the shape it was on the ground in front of the bench, whether it has any sealing effects, etc. That's all.

We're not going to take it to pm so we invite you to stay and give your assumptions and opinions. Hang around.

When was the first time you used Dacron?

[swheeler]

I didn't know we had to get LG's permission to discuss dacron on here, sorry.

[vzerone]

Oh he's okay. He wanted clarification from me if I agreed Dacron works as a filler.

[swheeler]

I sure like it, but then I only use it properly.Since when would 24 gr of IMR 4198 and 3/4 gr of fluffed up dacron be improper use, cause that is the load depositing melted dacron on the case necks of 8mm.

That is with the 175 gr Lee bullet shot just weeks ago in VZ24 on another thread here