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Thread: So paper patch boolits not supposed to lead up barrels eh ?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Chris, seal the interior of your stock with epoxy - or at least a oil-polyurethane stock finish like Permalyn (from Laurel Mt. Forge). That will greatly reduce your concerns.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunlaker View Post
    The round felts are pretty good I think. I have been experimenting with the BACO wipers and my .45-2.4" version of Dan's chamber. I run two of them through per pass, and a dry patch. In this respect it's not faster than regular patching between shots, but it gets the bore cleaner and dryer.

    The o-rings on the BACO wipers are good at keeping the "wiping juice" out of the rifles action which I think is a good thing on a highwall action in particular, where the wiping fluid can soak into the stock if you have too much of it going into the action.

    Chris.
    I was wondering how the O rings would get into the corners of the lands.
    I was thinking of cutting washers from rubber or neoprene then using scissors or a stanley knife and cutting small radial slits around the circumference. Where the slits line up with the corners they should wipe better. Perhaps.
    If I get hooked on this PP stuff, I might setback and rechamber my 2.4 also. But I find it time consuming getting the barrel to screw up tight with the foresight dovetail in the right place. Once I took a whisker too much off and the sight was too far over so had to go another revolution. We learn by experience.
    Keith

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    keith, it is easy to make your own bore critters and using neoprene washers to for the squeegee function. 1/2" washers from your hardware store will work well. some need to be replaced more often (yearly) than others (2-3 yrs) but just watch for wear on the edges.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Keith if you have one gallon plastic ice cream buckets down your way they make very good .043" polly wads. My kids save the empty's for me.

    Also it looks like you have a good wad punch. You might cut some wads out of a old leather belt and use those wads for your bore pigs instead of the O rings they wipe the bore better and also get in the tight corners.

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
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    Lots of info here ,will have to book mark this

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    to quote keith.
    "if i get hooked on this pp stuff...."
    better just face it keith, you already are.
    keep on having fun.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    Chris, seal the interior of your stock with epoxy - or at least a oil-polyurethane stock finish like Permalyn (from Laurel Mt. Forge). That will greatly reduce your concerns.
    Thanks Brent. I've been meaning to look into it.

    Chris.

  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy
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    Not sure about today. The poly wad load did OK but the gasket wad started to group with Swiss then a flyer , a couple in the group and another flyer.
    The Wano with the gasket wad was a washout. Third shot another lead mine
    . by Keith Cree, on Flickr
    . by Keith Cree, on Flickr
    . by Keith Cree, on Flickr

    I think the boolit is a bit undersize at 442. I will make a push through sizer at 443 and put the 446 slugs through it and duplicate everything I did today with the bigger projectile.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Might want to make your sizer to .445 or .444 first.
    GUSA #6
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  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy
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    If I make the hole in the sizer 445 I cant make it smaller.
    If I make it 443 and its still too small I can open it up to 444 and then 445 etc

    All my cases are 2.1 so I am going to do as Chris suggested and trim to 2.092 to suit this reamer.
    Last edited by Keith; 02-11-2018 at 02:21 AM.

  11. #51
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    keith,
    those poly wads seem to show a trend.
    it will be interesting to see what effect trimming has.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  12. #52
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    a thing i have been meaning to try for a gas seal wad is beeswax in warmer weather, and beeswax softened a little for colder conditions.
    under the bullet would go a wax paper wad.
    under that a 0.030 poly and under that a wax wad about 0.060 or a little thicker.
    then under that a wax paper over powder wad.
    in warm conditions, the wax would bump up very quickly and easily and similarly in colder weather thinned just a little with tallow of the like, to possibly seal effectively.
    this is not to be a lube, but rather a gas seal.
    felt soaked in a firm lube and then squeezed a bit before cooling has proven to be a good seal.
    too much lube left in the felt can cause differing thickness wads.
    you can order felt about 0.060 and 0.120 thick, and the thinner version is easier to cut with square sides.
    i have found felt to give good bumpup in the 40/72, and also felt soaked in lube.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy
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    Yes it seems the gas seal is the problem. Also Wano seems weaker than Swiss in that regard. I hope I can make Wano work as I have a fair bit.
    Can you lot get Swiss down there?
    Keith

  14. #54
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    keith,
    before you trim cases, a study of fireformed brass might be worthwhile.
    if fired cases show no rediction in diameter at the moth compaerd to a little in the case, and there is no sign of the neck being formed to the shape of the 25 degree transition, then you might not need to.
    yes we can get swiss here.
    there is a place in qld that sells wano, and it is reported that they are also now handling swiss.
    possible a pyrotechnic company?
    keep safe,
    bruce.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    Chris, seal the interior of your stock with epoxy - or at least a oil-polyurethane stock finish like Permalyn (from Laurel Mt. Forge). That will greatly reduce your concerns.
    brent, i find that using quality hobby shop (medical grade) water thin CYA (CYAnoacrylate "super glue") works faster and better than epoxy for both hardening and sealing wood. this is not about bedding the stock, but of stabilizing the wood. any superfluous hair cracks or grain issues can be mitigated by dusting them with baking soda, then wicking in the water thin CYA. this wicking in process will unload noxious CYA fumes and needs to be done upwind and/or with a bandana mask.

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    If I make the hole in the sizer 445 I cant make it smaller.
    If I make it 443 and its still too small I can open it up to 444 and then 445 etc

    All my cases are 2.1 so I am going to do as Chris suggested and trim to 2.092 to suit this reamer.
    Most of Dan's 45 cal. paper patch chambers were designed to shoot a .444 bullet in 7 lb Ubrect paper or Seth Cole 55 w.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    One thing that may be something to think about is whether the Krieger barrel is appropriate for paper patched boolits.
    Looking at your paper patches, the cuts are very sharp and mostly through both layers of patch indicating that your barrel’s rifling is very sharp and the lands cut at 90deg.
    Original Metford and Henry barrels do not cut the patches but instead appear to compress the paper in the lands and the wind resistance peels the patch off the bullet as it exits the barrel.
    You will see the patch is separated by tiny tears rather than clean cuts. Sort of the same action as creasing a piece of paper with your fingernail and then tearing it along the crease.
    A sharp land will slice right through the patch exposing the corners directly to the lead and that is why your cleaning patch has the lead deposit right at the edge too.
    Maybe that is why Krieger lists Henry rifled barrels mentioning that they are made for paper patched boolits.
    Your barrel will smooth out over time of course one would think and maybe then it will be kinder to paper patches.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    You should be able to make the Wano powder work quite well with a lube wad, or beeswax like Bruce mentioned. In my .45-2.4" rifle with Dan's P chamber I can shoot plain Goex Fg with a lube wad and at 200m it's easily as accurate as any other load. But I was never able to get the velocity SD anywhere close to as good as the Swiss 1.5 load with poly wads.

    One thing I will explore further ( likely in the distant future ) is Kenny Wasserberger's wad stack which uses a card wad, 0.060" LDPE, and a 0.125" felt wad. I've used it in the .45-2.4" case with Old Eynesford 1.5 and it shot very well. Same as the Swiss 1.5 load with just an LDPE wad, but the velocity stats are just a little worse on average. Maybe not statistically significant though. I once tried this wad stack in the .45-70 but it didn't work with Swiss 1.5. I think the wads reduced the bump up too much. It would probably work with FFFg though.

    On a side note, I have had Schuetzen FFg work quite well in a .38-55 shooting breech seated PP bullets. I seated them with a 0.060" wad under the bullet. I think Schuetzen FFg is repackaged Wano powder.

    Chris.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if you don't have a rough spot in the lead of that chamber. The three groups on the top half of that target all show some promise, but then you get to the last load and things go to pot and you get another lead mine. Could be a burr left behind, tearing the patch, or possibly a small chip left a gouge.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  20. #60
    Boolit Master
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    while kenny's wadstack suits the 2 7/8" case well, it might not do so well in the 2 1/10" case.
    the long stack itself could absorb a lot of the bumping up effect, and this is evidenced by the fact that kenny talks about short patching.
    his big charges would have an edge here compared to the shorter case.
    he is trying to reduce the charge, and does it with a long wadstack and deep seated bullets.
    those deep seated bullets are probably doing most of their initial sealing in the groove diameter chamber.
    as the bullets move forward, they are groove diameter moving into the barrel, again offering a seal.
    putting that stack into the 2.1" case would reduce it to a mid range only proposition due to reduced powder capacity
    good bumpup is required to bang the bullet into the rifling for a seal, and there is less powder to do this.
    maybe seating the bullets deeper in the case would offer a seal there, but it would also challenge case capacity, and in the tight chamber might not take the rifling where the bullet was in the case.
    pure lube wads will offer a solid hydraulic affect against the bullet base, offering max bumpup.
    keep safe,
    bruce.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check