Are cast bullets supposed to grenade when hunting? WARNING: graphic pics

[Larry Gibson]

KEEP THE HOLLOW POINT!

n10sivern

I am a fan of HPs cast soft for hunting.....they kill quicker. I have been using them for years on game. I have used them from 800 fps to 2200 fps. The one thing I have found is the alloy and HP shape (width AND depth) must be matched to the intended impact velocity range on the hunted game.

You've a large heavy bullet smashing into dense meat and bone on those shots (good shots btw) and there shout have been damage like that....that's what disables and kills quickly. You haven't yet mentioned the depth of the HP(?) but it is important. With that heavy bullet at subsonic velocity cast of that soft alloy a shallower HP is probably warranted for a bit less violent expansion.

[Soundguy]

I did not recover any lead fragments. I assume the bullet did what I wanted it to do. I wanted subsonic expansion. I would have to assume that it was bone fragments. I just did not expect that much damage from the bone. I dropped a buck with my 300wsm pushing 165gr HPBT gamekings at 3200fps. It was a longish shot so I decided to shoot him in the shoulder to anchor him. Lots of bone fragments but less than the 358 cast. My best guess is the HP on the cast bullet peeled off and the solid base plowed on through. I’m ok with that. I was just surprised at the damage. This is my first deer with the bullet so I don’t know how it will be next time. I don’t plan on changing a thing until I have more experience with it. For the record, these loads were meant for hogs and not deer. I’m curious what a shoulder shot on a hog would look like.

last shoulder shot on a hog I did it pulverized the shoulder and did exit diagonally thru the ribs taking lungs with it. lost ribs and that shoulder. using the boolit in my avatar pic.

[BK7saum]

Larry, I have visited with n10sivern previously regarding subsonic .358s. His mold was a NOE 0.360 280grain RN. I think NOE has changed the designation on mold identifiers and this mold is now listed as the NOE 360-294-RN-S4 360009. If so, then with the RG mold, this is a 0.338" deep hollow point with a width of 0.120". I may be incorrect, but I think that's the bullet in question here.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/..._S4_Sketch.Jpg

[popper]

Just bone damage. Shot a pig with 40SW, hit the tail and had bone sticking out the gullet (busted shoulder), hard cast 160gr. Shot a carcass with RD style in the shoulder, bone out the gullet from busted shoulder/ribs. Hit same in gut and had a nice round 45 exit hole. About the same alloy as yours. 30/30 1500 fps load. No boolits recovered.

[GooseGestapo]

Actually I'm convinced that your bullet expanded as intended, and yes, it also tumbled after initial impact. Most of the soft tissue damage is from bone shards/fragments.

As you see, with bone impact that temporary and permanent wound cavities are meaningless, and due to the sectional density and momentum of the 280gr .358" bullet, the bone shattering and penetration is substantial.
Like we always say, shot placement x3!
I say you have an excellent combination! If it ain't broke (it ain't!!!), don't "fix" it!

[JSH]

I am with others, hydraulics and bone shards. I won't knock the bullet placement as I do not know what your shot opportunity was.
I like heavy bullets in the 35's though I am not a fan of HP's for eating type critters. I have a fair idea of what kind of terrain you have, some places 25 yards may as well be 25 miles. I have some tough stuff close to home but nothing like I have seen in the south. I still try to punch a hole behind the front shoulder myself.
The heavy bullets, 170 and over in the 35's are pretty much a freight train. I have tried and tried to recover a bullet from my 357 lever gun, run 180's in it. I have never took a shot In the chest facing me, I know it will go into the guts. Even at 1000 fps, the momentum will carry it a long way. I have shot deer with GP100's, 4" and 6" out to 100ish yards give or take, never recovered a bullet from them either.
Jeff

[Larry Gibson]

Larry, I have visited with n10sivern previously regarding subsonic .358s. His mold was a NOE 0.360 280grain RN. I think NOE has changed the designation on mold identifiers and this mold is now listed as the NOE 360-294-RN-S4 360009. If so, then with the RG mold, this is a 0.338" deep hollow point with a width of 0.120". I may be incorrect, but I think that's the bullet in question here.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/..._S4_Sketch.Jpg

If that's what he's using then all is well.....I wouldn't change a thing. As popper says, it's just bone damage and you can't kill anything with that big a bullet w/o damaging something. Dead pig, dead deer......

[n10sivern]

Larry, I have visited with n10sivern previously regarding subsonic .358s. His mold was a NOE 0.360 280grain RN. I think NOE has changed the designation on mold identifiers and this mold is now listed as the NOE 360-294-RN-S4 360009. If so, then with the RG mold, this is a 0.338" deep hollow point with a width of 0.120". I may be incorrect, but I think that's the bullet in question here.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/..._S4_Sketch.Jpg

Yeah. I looked for it and the 280gr isn’t there anymore. They have the 294 but in the details they say it’s 284gr but it looks like my mold.

[n10sivern]

I am with others, hydraulics and bone shards. I won't knock the bullet placement as I do not know what your shot opportunity was.
I like heavy bullets in the 35's though I am not a fan of HP's for eating type critters. I have a fair idea of what kind of terrain you have, some places 25 yards may as well be 25 miles. I have some tough stuff close to home but nothing like I have seen in the south. I still try to punch a hole behind the front shoulder myself.
The heavy bullets, 170 and over in the 35's are pretty much a freight train. I have tried and tried to recover a bullet from my 357 lever gun, run 180's in it. I have never took a shot In the chest facing me, I know it will go into the guts. Even at 1000 fps, the momentum will carry it a long way. I have shot deer with GP100's, 4" and 6" out to 100ish yards give or take, never recovered a bullet from them either.
Jeff

I have a 13ac field and I could have taken any shot I wanted. It was right at dark, I had already shot a buck an hour earlier. I chose a shot where the bullet would enter the neck in front of the front shoulder and impact the back shoulder or just behind it. I figured this would be my best shot to drop the deer as it would hit major arteries, lungs, and possibly heart and spine. It was raining and I didn’t want to trail a deer. My shot placement was spot on and did what it was supposed to do. She ran 15-20 yards and piled up. I just wasn’t expecting the damage I got. I shot the hog in the head and it was bullet in and bullet out. Who knows, the HP could have fragmented and bounced around in her head. I didn’t dissect her head lol.

[rking22]

What???? No brains and eggs ?
I like that shot as well, they dont go far with that area damaged and the kill area is almost as big as the shoulder.

[Ramjet-SS]

Outstanding performance from those loads and good shooting.

[Texas by God]

I'm kidding with you but as Joyce Hornady used to say, at what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail?

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[TXGunNut]

I think this boolit requires more testing. Flatten about a dozen more hogs like that first one and we'll have more data to analyze.
Good job! I like the video.

[skeettx]

OK, my take on this
Antimony will cause fragmentation
Too much speed will cause blood shock
Hard to go too soft with powder coated at that speed.

So you were using 97 % lead, 1% tin and 2% antimony.

I would say up the tin and drop the antimony.
You should not need the hardness with the coated bullet
and the 1000 fps.

Mike

[n10sivern]

OK, my take on this
Antimony will cause fragmentation
Too much speed will cause blood shock
Hard to go too soft with powder coated at that speed.

So you were using 97 % lead, 1% tin and 2% antimony.

I would say up the tin and drop the antimony.
You should not need the hardness with the coated bullet
and the 1000 fps.

Mike

I only use that mix because that what I use on my faster loaded boolits. Easily available for me....for now

[n10sivern]

I think this boolit requires more testing. Flatten about a dozen more hogs like that first one and we'll have more data to analyze.
Good job! I like the video.

I agree!!!

[OldBearHair]

No foamy bloodshot meat as with high velosity boolits. Wash all that meat and it is good to the bone. Yummmy. You did good!

[BigMagShooter]

I think bone frags are what you are seeing.

Just an observation. That bullet is really seated deep in the case for the 358.. not criticizing, just observing. I have to remember all guns are a law unto themselves.

[Texas by God]

You should try lead alloy instead of Jade for your boolits.��

[GEOMETRIC]

I'm still learning & quite a lot is from you guys. However, I do have some experience. I do know TXGunNut is right. One kill doesn't prove anything. I don't have the experience with alloys many here have. All I have used is wheel weights & pure or nearly pure lead. Pure lead is cohesive & works great at BP/muzzle loader velocities. The only hog I ever shot that dropped instantly in its tracks was what I would call a medium size sow. I have yet to get one to a scale but I have killed several that two grown men could barely drag a short distance on the ground. The sow was hit with a 30-30, Lyman 170 gr. cast from wheel weights @ around 2000 fps. I don't know how you define exploded but it fragmented & turned hog innards to jello. I have used other rifles but the only other CB I have used is a 400+ gr. .45-70 cast from wheel weights at about 1600 fps. I like the .45-70 much better on deer & hogs, especially if I plan to eat what I shoot. They don't drop instantly but they don't go far & die pretty quick. The exploding bullet kills quicker provided it doesn't hit bone but what a mess!