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Thread: Are cast bullets supposed to grenade when hunting? WARNING: graphic pics

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Are cast bullets supposed to grenade when hunting? WARNING: graphic pics

    So, I shot my first animal with a cast bullet yesterday. Smoked a hog at about 50 yards with a powder coated 280gr NOE HP mold for my 358 Winchester. I am shooting it at about 1000 FPS through a suppressor. Dropped the hog in its tracks.




    Today, I shot a doe in the neck where the neck meets the chest at about 60 yards. She ran 20 yards and dropped. When I dress the doe, there is damage everywhere.

    Bullet entrance


    Entrance side upper shoulder- broken ribs


    Entrance side front of the spine- broken ribs and vertebrae


    Entrance side mid spine- broken ribs


    Entrance side back of the spine- broken vertebrae


    Exit wound in shoulder- big hole



    Exit front of the spine- broken ribs and vertebrae


    Exit back of the spine- broken vertebrae, back is pretty broken

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    You're bad about getting hair every where like me. Use a blow torch to singe it off. That aside, congrats on a nice harvest.

    What is your alloy? Hard bullets will fragment and explode. Softer is better. Toughening bullets via certain allows or heat treating helps aswell. CWW or softer is supposed to be about right. Neck shot most likely hit the veribraes and shattered the bullet. Play with your alloy or try not to hit bones.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  3. #3
    its a good shot. it looks to be 30:1 - 40:1, but i could be wrong

    what is your alloy?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Well your speed does not sound unreasonable, so that points to a too hard alloy as mentioned above.

    Myself I have been using 50% Clip on wheel weights and 50% soft lead or range scrap with 1-2% tin/pewter added. Gives you great fill out and nice shiny bullets.

    Sometimes when you hit bone like that things do happen. Even with the best of alloys.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    was the video yours if so what scope was that thanks rrh

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    My alloy is 2% antimony and 1% tin. Air cooled

    Redriverhunter, yes. The video is mine and was taken with an ATN X-sight

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    With that alloy at that velocity, I'd have figured they'd have held together real nicely. I'm at a loss to figure it out.

    Looks like it killed well though, so not sure I'd call it a bullet failure. Interesting post, by the way.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Did you find bullet fragments? Given the damage it appears the expansion was violent yet was through and through on both animals?

    Could we have a picture of the bullet HP and the mould with HP pin?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    While there seems to be a lot of trauma, if you didn't find a lot of small lead fragments, I don't theink the grenaded, but expanded thoroughly. I didnt see a lot of bloodshot meat, just broken bones and a fair sized exit. Since you are subsonic, I'd take that over a pencil through wound. If you'd made a different shot, through the chest, then you'd want a bullet more likely to expand due to less mass and resistance.

    I have the 360-310 thumper waiting on my 358 for same purpose.

    Nice writeup.
    Brad

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Middle boolit is the 358 one I used

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    How deep is the HP?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Nice boolit! Nice shot!

    At 1000 fps MV, BHN 10-11 is all you want. Hollow point and hard alloy are what got you your fragmentation grenade.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master davidheart's Avatar
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    The first thing that came to mind is "hard alloy." That hollow point just makes matters worse. Good kills though and congrats!
    He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty. -Psalm 91:1

  14. #14
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


    waksupi's Avatar
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    Lose the hollow point.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    With the damage done to her spine I'm surprised she ran 20 yards.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by RPRNY View Post
    Nice boolit! Nice shot!

    At 1000 fps MV, BHN 10-11 is all you want. Hollow point and hard alloy are what got you your fragmentation grenade.
    I would agree. If the boolit fragmented, it's too hard.

    If you don't find any fragments, maybee you just got rapid expansion, and it magic-boollited all the bones in the area from shockwave.

    The exit would is a good sign. All depends on if you find fragments. If yes, possibly too hard.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Personally I think there are two things in play here, shot placement & hollow point, hitting that particular spot with a substantial amount of bone mass, that hollow point did the only thing could have, it came apart. Hit that same deer in the ribs breaking one light bone and that bullet will probably do exactly what you want (especialy at 1000 fps)...facilitating eating right up to the hole...on both sides.

    If you are one of those hunters that choose to shoot for a neck shot, and I'm not implying that there is anything wrong with that, lots of guys do, then I would throw that hollow point pin away and use the same alloy with the round nose boolit. If your next kill might very well be a rib shot placement then I would trust the hollow point again.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Rick Hodges's Avatar
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    I think a lot of that damage was secondary fragments from the broken bone fragments.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by fingers284 View Post
    Personally I think there are two things in play here, shot placement & hollow point, hitting that particular spot with a substantial amount of bone mass, that hollow point did the only thing could have, it came apart. Hit that same deer in the ribs breaking one light bone and that bullet will probably do exactly what you want (especialy at 1000 fps)...facilitating eating right up to the hole...on both sides.

    If you are one of those hunters that choose to shoot for a neck shot, and I'm not implying that there is anything wrong with that, lots of guys do, then I would throw that hollow point pin away and use the same alloy with the round nose boolit. If your next kill might very well be a rib shot placement then I would trust the hollow point again.
    I tend to prefer wide meplats to hollowpoints. Less tendency for the boolit to peel or fragment vs just flattening and blunt force trauma'ing thru.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hodges View Post
    I think a lot of that damage was secondary fragments from the broken bone fragments.
    agreed. when the pressure wave went thru.. lotsa stuff moved out of the way, his shot put it where most of that stuff that moved was bone.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check