Lee PrecisionGraf & SonsStainLess Steel MediaADvertise here
MidSouth Shooters SupplyInline FabricationTitan ReloadingRotoMetals2

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Reloading the classics: The Savage 99 in 22 Hi Power

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Big Mak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Lake Tapps, WA
    Posts
    177

    Reloading the classics: The Savage 99 in 22 Hi Power

    Charles Newton was a lawyer and a firearms enthusiast that invented a number of cartridges but mostly known for the 22 Hi Power and the .250-3000
    Newton had several businesses in his lifetime, Newton Arms Company,Buffalo Newton Rifle Company and LeverBolt Rifle Company around the turn of the 19th century.

    Savage Firearms company adopted his 22 HP and .250-3000, the latter being the first commercial rifle projectile to travel over 3000 fps. Around this same time Newton created the .22 Newton which eventually became the inspiration for the .22-250. 22 HP and .22-250 are essentially distance kissing cousins.

    In 1912, Savage adopted the 22 Hi Power for the venerable Savage 99 which used a 70 gr jacked projectile. The 22 HP was the first truly high velocity centerfire cartridges. It was primarily advertised as a small game round but later touted as a medium game (Deer) round although it fell short of getting enough pentration to kill a deer without a lucky shot leaving many wounded game thus all 50 states banned the 22 Hi Power and cartridges in similar size for hunting med to large game. Savage even went as far as marketing the 22 Hi Power as an a tiger killer. see Photo.

    Today, there is no manufactured ammunition for the 22 hp whose dimensional name is 5.652Rmm. The last company to make 22 HP ammunition was Sellier and Bellot and their ammunition has a reputation for shooting a"shotgun pattern" due to the tumbling of this VERY unstable round.

    The rest of this post is my journey with a 104 year old Savage 99H 22 Hi Power firearm and reloading for this unique wildcat round.

    As you can see in this first photo, the Sellier and Bellot (SP) ammo is like a shotgun pattern. This is a VERY unstable round with evidence of bullets tumbling as they hit paper at 50 yards using a 1913 Savage 99H 22 High Power with a Marbles Peep sight.





    I spoke with several Savage experts specifically about this round and decided on a cast lead -gas checked bullet that is still made today. I was given instructions to scrub every bit of copper out of the barrel on my 1913 22 HP and boy oh boy did it bleed blue!



    I discovered that Dan the bullet man at The Bull Shop in Montana casts a 64 grain gas checked, lubed .228 bullet. Bought 100 of them for testing.



    I loaded 10 test rounds with no filler or wad, using a super low dose of BLC(2) in 19 grains, a Lg Rifle primer case up in Sellier and Bellot spent brass that has been neck annealed and trimmed. Then I proceeded to the range. The results from the first photo using box S&B ammo compared to this photo is remarkable. Granted, I was looking for a closer grouping than the Sellior and Bellot(not adjusting the peep sight), and was pleasantly pleased with the results. The first two shots were low (Fouling shots if you will), then the grouping started appearing tight.



    Pleased with the results and great information from the savage experts out there, I proceeded to use my Drill press CTS Case trimmer (.223 )to trim the brass to 2.045 and then chamfered, and steel-pin tumbled for 90 minutes and annealed the rest of the brass.



    Using mutliple sources and word of mouth (including Load Data website, which as been my "Go To" analysis along with 3 different manuals,) I decided to try another 10 rounds at 23.1 grains of BLC-2 for my next outing. It is recommended not to exceed 25 grs of BLC(2) with a lead cast gas checked bullet. These cartridges ended up producing 2250 fps with a standard deviation of 25.22.


    I'm certain I can get these groups tighter with this 105 year old rifle! I find great pleasure in researching and testing these wild cat cartridges in the field.

  2. #2
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Boise Idaho
    Posts
    96
    Great looking rifle. Loads look very promising...

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Red Deer Alberta
    Posts
    179
    The factory jacketed bullets weren't bad just too long a bearing surface for the rate of twist.Much better in a 1-10 custom barrel.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,462
    Norma makes or made ammo for the 5.6x52R. Texas never banned it for hunting deer and using heavy bullet .223 is the same thing. If you can shoot - it will kill deer handily.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Red Deer Alberta
    Posts
    179
    Ontario/Canada permits centerfire for WT deer and my dad dropped over a dozen along with 3 problem black bears with a CIL 830 .222 and my 55gr handloads.One round per customer.Stay away from the shoulders and punch them through the lungs.There's an old B+W photo of a lady prospector in Barkerville British Columbia with two grizzly bear hides on her close line posing with a .22Hp Savage 99. Don't recommend it but it has been done.

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    82
    My HP really likes the .224 70 gr Speer semi-point. Shoots MOA at 100.

    Years ago I had a custom 03' in 22 HP improved. Straight body, 40 degree shoulder and shorter neck. It was a tack driving screamer with the old Swift 70 gr spitzers.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Red Deer Alberta
    Posts
    179
    Ken Waters discovered his .22 HP would shoot .224 bullets quite well. A 60gr .224 Partition should tilt deer.The Speer 70gr .228 no longer made was a RN short enough to shoot well unlike the longer profiled now extinct Hornady SP 70gr .228

  8. #8
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Northern MN
    Posts
    2,067
    According to my sources on the Savage firearms the Imp or High Power received a lot of pretty fabulous press in its day. One individual used it to take a tiger. It also was reputed to be one of the experiments Savage made as with the 303 to sue oversized bullets to gain a few fps. Depended on the manufacturer as some loaded the OS bullets and some the bore diameter. For instance the 303 was loaded with 311 diameter bullets by one manufacturer. I thought at one time Hornady may have made J bullets for it.

    DEP

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Traffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Central Wisconisn
    Posts
    1,114
    Thanks for the thread. Very informative. I love the old calibers. Some deserve to be brought back.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Red Deer Alberta
    Posts
    179
    I believe Arthur Savage made the 99 in .303 Savage in full length musket version in an attempt to secure a military contract at one time with the .311 grooves then standardized with the currant .308 failing that.I've seen pics of the Montreal Home Guard rifles only a few thousand made and so stamped.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    UPSTATE new york
    Posts
    702
    I like this cartridge. .224 or .227 may shoot well with some work, but they are not big enough to fill the groove, as is the case with S&B. You will wear your bore quicker that way. Some guy on GB has modern jacketed for sale, reasonable priced. The 303 was never over 308 in size. This is a Phillip Sharp rumor that he started. They used the groove dia as the handle. Some guy did a survey on this years ago when the net was first coming up. I would like to see a .30-30 necked to shoot a .224 in a proper .224 barrel. Would be a fun 22.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SE Ohio
    Posts
    678
    That would be a 219 Zipper! I saw article on 22Hi-power years ago that said the coastal Indians
    liked them for shooting seals. Supposedly would anchor them so they wouldn't get back in water
    If caught on ice or beach.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    203
    Don't worry too much about perfection and have fun shooting the old girl!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Red Deer Alberta
    Posts
    179
    Wrap the .224 bullets with teflon plumbers tape so it tightens with the direction of the rifling. The bullets need to first be roughed up/rolled under a bastard file on a metal plate or hard surface to grip the tape.

  15. #15

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Traffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Central Wisconisn
    Posts
    1,114
    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer2 View Post
    Wrap the .224 bullets with teflon plumbers tape so it tightens with the direction of the rifling. The bullets need to first be roughed up/rolled under a bastard file on a metal plate or hard surface to grip the tape.
    Wow, now there is a trick. Where did you learn this? Sounds like a good idea for a lot of slower moving bullets. I'm gonna have to try it with the 22lr's that I load.
    AKA hans.pcguy

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    1,468
    Here are my experiences with the .22 Savage Hi-Power in the Model 99. Not very good. I could probably do better today, though.

    http://www.leverguns.com/articles/22_hipower.htm

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Annapolis,Md
    Posts
    2,225
    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer2 View Post
    I believe Arthur Savage made the 99 in .303 Savage in full length musket version in an attempt to secure a military contract at one time with the .311 grooves then standardized with the currant .308 failing that.I've seen pics of the Montreal Home Guard rifles only a few thousand made and so stamped.
    Only a couple hundred MHG rifles built, not a few thousand.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Annapolis,Md
    Posts
    2,225
    I have fired untold thousands of shots through the four Savage .22HP's I own. I try to stick mainly to cast bullets anymore out of deference to the the old barrels which I would like to keep pristine.

    My two favorite designs are the old Lyman/Ideal 228367 left unsized as it comes from the mold (.230"), and the RCBS 60 grain FN like the OP's bullets he purchased from Bullshop, sized to .229 (to make them uniformly round). With both, cast at around 11-13bhn, lubed with good old 50/50, any charge of 6-8 grains Unique give my best groups- 1" average at 50 yards, 2" average at 100 (with enough much smaller groups that an average Internet jockey would justify in calling it a MOA shooter). That is all done with M1899H takedown carbines (including a custom job I built with a spare .303 Savage barrel), Lyman #30 windage-adjustable tang sights on all of them. Who say's takedowns won't shoot?!

    I load my jacketed ammo with Hornady .228 70 grainers that I trim in a file-trim die to .750" length (to get them to stabilize in my 1-12" twist barrels), 70 gr. Speer .228's when I find them, Sisk 60 and 70 grain .228 when I find them, Norma 70 grain when I find them, and Buffalo Arms 60 grain .228's which are usually easy to get. (Thank goodness I have amassed a substantial stash of all of those discontinued bullets- enough to last me for the sprint to the finish line. None for sale though, sorry.) My most consistently good accuracy, generally with all I mentioned, lies with 23.0 grains 3031 and/or 24.0 grains H-4895- so much so that I have pretty much given up with experimenting with other powders, although I mean to try Varget this spring. Light-ish loads for sure, but intentional in the interest of maximum case life.

    I would love to give them a workout at 200 yards but my eyes just don't cooperate with that distance and peep sights anymore!

    One of these carbines is going along on an extended coyote hunting expedition in northern PA in a couple weeks- for the daylight hunting over bait. Sorry, but the AR .223 with illuminated reticle scope gets the nod for the night time shooting.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Big Mak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Lake Tapps, WA
    Posts
    177
    Hi gnoahhh! Sportsdad60 here.
    Thanks for your private messages when I was experimenting with this new load.
    Have a good Coyote hunt!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check