44 Blackhawk Hunter

[newton]

I got a chance to shot last night. I primarily wanted to just test velocity with the W296 and 290gr LFN(Lyman devastator with solid tip). I should have taken a picture of them, but they look just like the devastator minus a hollow point.

I was originally going to test in .5 grain increments, but then just decided to do it in 1-grain increments. I figured that the .5 grain ones would fall somewhere in between the full grain ones(I know, that is pure rocket science there......). I loaded two each of 19, 20, 21. The 19 grain shot around 1190fps. The 20 grain shot around 1250fps. The 21 grain had a pretty big difference between the two, one came in at 1259fps and the other just over 1300fps. I am not sure if it was the round, or the chrony messing up.

Instead of just pushing them out with the ejector, I decided to take the cylinder out to see how they felt coming out.



The 19gr cases almost just fell out. The 20gr cases were a little tighter, and the 21 cases felt even tighter. I did not have to beat any out, but you could tell the difference significantly. One thing to know is that this was a freshly cleaned cylinder, these were the first 6 rounds fired after I scrubbed it spotless the other night.

I am still not sure what to think about what the pressures might be. While I believe it is 'safe' in my gun, there is no data for this boolit and weight. Only the hollow point version. I know Larry has done testing with his mould and, if I remember right, his boolits were 275gr. So is 15gr more going to significantly increase pressures? He uses 23gr of H110. I would think that 21gr should be quite ok. Larry, if your out there, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I wasn't planning on shooting for 'groups', but I liked how the 19gr load felt and thought a load that produced around 1200fps would be a fine hunting load, so I loaded up 6 rounds with 19.5gr and shot at 50yards. Went down to check and had a NICE(to me) group sitting there. Excited, but once again running out of daylight, went back and loaded 6 more to test at 100 yards. I did adjust the scope for elevation, based on assumed velocity and wanting to be zero at 100 yards.



What makes me scratch my head is how much more left the POI shifted. It was a little left of the POA at 50yd, but its way left at 100yd. Its around 2" left at 50, and 6" left at 100. I guess the adjustment made to the scope could have also attributed?

I know I was not as steady with those shots at 100yd though, not near like I was at 50yd. The trigger creep is still bad though, and I had really not planned on shooting for groups until I work with the trigger. I just thought the 50yd group showed some promise so I wanted to try longer range.

I'm pretty excited though really. I think that after some work on the trigger, then some time with practice, I will be shooting some really nice groups with this thing.

[Bigslug]

Hitting to the left of the target is what right-handed shooters DO:

1. Your elbow bends to the left - lock it out.

2. Your wrist bends to the left - lock it out.

3. All of the meat, muscle and bone of your grip is on the right side. . .leaving only your thumb on the left to close off the path of least resistance - clamp the thumb inward tightly.

4. Your trigger finger wants to curl to the left - adjust so it's pulling straight back instead.

5. If you're shooting with two hands, your left hand's mission in life is to help in counteracting ALL of the above tendencies - apply it with that intent.

Firelapping is a good thing in my experience. I did not know about pin gauges when I did my SBH, but they have come in MASSIVELY handy on subsequent revolvers. For the bore, as I recall, you'll probably need ones in the .416", .417", .418", .419" spread. Find one that slip fits the muzzle and see if it stops before passing through the back of the barrel. I keep a flexible plastic Glock cleaning rod handy to push it back forward if it sticks. From there you can go to smaller gauges to see just how much constriction you have. Firelap until the first gauge passes through. For the cylinder, you can use the .430", .431", .432", .433" gauges to determine if any of your chamber throats are tighter. You can mark the tight ones and shoot your initial firelappers through those, switching to using all six if the throats even out before the frame crush does.

Ruger triggers: I.M.E., at least with the DA ones, the answer is a lot of oil on mating surfaces and a lot of repeatedly cycling the action. Once any factory grit and machining burrs are flushed out or burnished down, there's rarely anything to complain about.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

wow, good info, I found that I was pulling shots to the left, you explained that well, newton, I did break down and do the "poor mans trigger job" since it is reversible, and it did help a lot. you don't feel that creep, and its just about the right pull for me, pretty light. I am gonna work on the above techniques, oh, I don't know if I told you, but I settled on 20.5grs of 296 for a good load, still packs plenty of punch, but the slightly less recoil seems to help with my shooting. good luck!

[newton]

Well all that does make sense. Thanks a bunch. It really helps clarify things.

[newton]

wow, good info, I found that I was pulling shots to the left, you explained that well, newton, I did break down and do the "poor mans trigger job" since it is reversible, and it did help a lot. you don't feel that creep, and its just about the right pull for me, pretty light. I am gonna work on the above techniques, oh, I don't know if I told you, but I settled on 20.5grs of 296 for a good load, still packs plenty of punch, but the slightly less recoil seems to help with my shooting. good luck!

Yea, I am thinking a lower charge is a good thing. I found out how to actually do some tweaking on the trigger spring versus just dropping a leg. I guess you could call it the almost poor mans trigger job. Lol I plan on going through my action the next few days and plan to document it all to share.

[Thumbcocker]

Nice group. Should put plenty of venison in the freezer with that load.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

newton, could you explain what you did, that sounds better than just having it in there next to the mainspring, although I haven't seen any way for it to hang up...

[Oklahoma Rebel]

also, what lube do you use for your keith and lyman molds?

[newton]

newton, could you explain what you did, that sounds better than just having it in there next to the mainspring, although I haven't seen any way for it to hang up...

I haven’t done it just yet. I found out how to on Friday, so I plan on making it apart of what I’m doing with slicking up the trigger. It involves just bending the spring in a few places. Does require the removal of it from the grip frame though, so it’s not as quick as just dropping a leg. I figured since I have my gun apart it would be a good time to do it. I disassembled everything this morning, but had other things to do till now. Fixing to go work on it though.

also, what lube do you use for your keith and lyman molds?

I have only been powder coating my boolits. Just using the old harbor freight red for now. I’ll eventually get some of smokes fancy colors(maybe even clear) to try though. Or do you mean what lube on the Mould itself?

[Budzilla 19]

New model super Blackhawk stainless gun, barrel set back to .003” gap, choke removed, trigger job, muzzle brake, cylinder throats all the same, Lee 310grn slugs powder coated in Smoke’s clear, a healthy dose of Hercules 2400, it shoots wonderfully!!!! Had one like this gun 20+ years ago, sold it, been looking ever since for another one, till last year that is!!! Do I like this gun? No, I LOVE this gun! Just my .02. Good luck with yours.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

newton, yeas, I meant boolit lube, let me know how your spring modification goes, and could you take a pic of it after you bend it so I can see? one thing I cannot understand, is why would you go through the trouble of PC'ing only to use clear paint!!!?!?! J/K,lol, but really, might as well make them look cool! I like the baby blue color, the same color that looks great on an old ford or chevy sedan from the 40's-50's!

[newton]

newton, yeas, I meant boolit lube, let me know how your spring modification goes, and could you take a pic of it after you bend it so I can see? one thing I cannot understand, is why would you go through the trouble of PC'ing only to use clear paint!!!?!?! J/K,lol, but really, might as well make them look cool! I like the baby blue color, the same color that looks great on an old ford or chevy sedan from the 40's-50's!

Yea, powder coating is not for everyone. I started loading cast boolits with only using tumble lube. It was about the time powder coating started gaining interest, so I started to experiment. Once I did it, I realized that while it was some work, it wasnt too much more than just tumble lubing - but a LOT less of a mess. I never bought a traditional lube setup so it just made sense to stick with powder coating. I tried pan lubing, but the powder coating is MUCH easier and again - no mess. I only tumble powder coat though.

The only reason to go with clear is because I do love the look of a lead boolit in the case. Something about that grey color that makes me smile.

[newton]

As far as the spring modification, here it is. Jury is out on it, but I will say that I probably will tweak it some.





There is the before and after pics. I cannot remember which site I saw it on first, but there are many different sites that show basically the same thing. I am not sure if it helped or not to tell the truth. I just got my gun back together this morning and only played with it a little. I know one thing for sure - the bend that contacts the trigger makes it a PAIN to put the frame back together. I do not have a trigger scale to measure the pull, so I have no idea what it was before - or now.

I do know that now it is pretty sweet. I got 90% of the creep out, and ALL of the gritty feeling out, by working on the hammer notch and sear. I am going to post a new thread topic that covers what I did. I figure it might be useful for those who have the gumption to try their hand at a trigger job and figured it might be useful as a stand alone topic. I have not seen a thread like it on this forum. I got most of my info from the ruger forum and some other internet wanna be gunsmith blogs.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

cool! I am looking forward to your new thread explaining what you did, some pictures would really help me understand things before I actually go in and open up the gun,( if I do). oh and I understand about the clearcoat, I too love the look of a nicely cast boolit, if you cast well, you might as well show it off!

[newton]

I couldn't wait any longer, so last night I went out in the freezing rain we were having and shot the hunter for the first time after the trigger job. I have to say I am very pleased with the initial results. The trigger feels so much better. After the last cylinder full I felt like I was able to squeeze off a round accurately(as far as shooting a pistol is concerned). I can see that shooting a pistol, even from a bench, will never have the same steady feel of a rifle on bags. But at least I was able to be, in a matter of words, supprised by the shot and not having to keep squeezing till the trigger broke unpredicably like before. To sum it up, the trigger broke the same each and every time.

The weather conditions were less than perfect. I normally do not shoot in the rain because I do not have a covered bench. But, it was not raining too hard, and the wind was still, so it was not too bad. I set up resting the gun on some bags with the frame in front of the trigger guard was the main point of contact. I pulled out some old leather work gloves that did not fit to use as a shield for the bags. After 18 rounds this is what it looked like.



What I did not realize is by doing this the gun gets absolutely filthy, all over. This will be one good reason to not use the bench for practice because cleaning all the nooks and cranys, especially with the scope on it, takes some time.

The first cylinder full was with the load I had used last time. 19.5gr of W296. I expected to find a pretty good group when I went to look at it because most of the shots felt good from my end. The targets I use are a 4" black dot printed on paper. My goal is to 'hopefully' get to where I can keep all the shots in that black circle - very lofty goal I am begining to think at 100 yards. With a rest I was able to pretty much keep the cross hairs in the circle, but with only a 2x scope that is kind of tricky. A rest helps, but it does not take out all the movement.

When I went to look at the target I was pretty stunned. 14" group. What did help was that I could see it was pretty well centered on the dot. With knowing what those kinds of groups mean in regards to rifles, I pretty much knew that it meant my load was not up to snuff. The only thing I could reason was the tempurater was about 20 or so degrees lower, so maybe I needed to bump up the charge some. So I loaded up 6 more with 20gr.

The group shrunk by almost 2/3rds. I did feel like a couple of shots I pulled, so I decided to try 6 more before calling it quits and waiting for some better weather. Plus, as it goes this time of year for me, daylight was fading and the freezing fog was moving in. That last group I only felt like maybe a couple were out, and sure enough I went down to find a nice 4.5" group centered above the dot.



I am pretty sure that the openess of the group is all me, even though I was using a rest. I've never bench rested pistols before, only resting my arms on a bench, but never tried to shoot for groups past 25 yards doing so, and never with a scope. So this is all new to me. With the results I see, I can deffinitely tell that with practice I will be able to shrink those down. Off hand shooting from field type positions will prove enlightening for sure. I never plan to actually shoot the pistol at a deer in a hunting situation past 50 yards without a rest though. So at least I feel good that the pistol will be accurate enough for that situation if it ever arises.

[newton]

The one issue I am facing at this point is my load development. I'm kinda in an unknown place. The boolit I am using has no data associated with it. I am not sure how far I can go, or should go, safely. I suppose I can stay where I am at and work with it because it does show promise, but like the above target shows, could I do more with the load to squeeze the groups down? Is 4" as good as it gets, or am I the limiting factor in it?

I have only really done development with rifle loads, but that is because I can almost take myself out of the equation with a good rest. The pistol takes so much more of my control than the rifle does. I know what to look for in regards to pressures, except I would say that I have almost never(if ever) found a rifle load that performed best at max. Usually, I am always well below max when accuracy is achieved.

I had a bull in the china closet moment last night also. I am kinda kicking myself today because of it. I bought a Lyman devastator mold last month specifically to try in the CVA rifle I had because I thought I might get better accuracy with it than what I was getting with the other molds I have. When I got rid of it I figured I would go ahead and use it in this pistol. When I received it, I looked it over and found there was a small defect in one of the mold halves. Like a pit in the metal, not caused by cherry that made the mold, but like a void that was in the metal that was uncovered when the mold was cut.

I called Lyman about it, and they sent me a new mold. Very nice of them(except they expected me to ship back the other mold - I suppose - on my own dime). Well, the new mold looked ok, so I started casting with it. It was not until I had used it a bit I started seeing that the mold halves are somewhat offset. It is not horrible, but by my best measurement, it makes a boolit that is around .004" or more out of round. After I size it, the out of round is only around .002", but that still is annoying to me.

So last night I thought I might try to correct the problem myself by hopefully moving the alignment pins. That turned out to fail, and in the process of trying to pry(yes, this is the bull moment) I put a good gouge in one half of the cavity. Pure stupidity. I left it alone after that and have not looked at it yet, but I am pretty sure I dinged it up worse than what the first mold was. I should have stopped, I probably should have never attempted it but rather sent the mold back, but I was frustrated that they sent me another defective mold to replace the first one.

I say all of that to say, when you get a sour taste in your mouth for something it's hard to continue to use it. So I am really thinking of getting another mold. I just do not know what to get. I like how steel molds feel in my hands, and the other(mainly RCBS) steel molds cast exceptionally better boolits than the aluminum Lee molds do. I really wanted something in the 280gr - 300gr range. This mold, with my DIY flat nose pin, made a boolit right at 290gr fully dressed. It obviously shoots well, even with it being out of round.

I like the .300" meplat it has and would like to stick with it. I do have the Lee 310gr mold, so I might try and see how it shoots in my gun. I'm considering getting a custom mold maker to replicate the Lyman Devastator except having a flat nose and not having to use a pin.

I guess what I am getting at is am I over thinking the weight thing? Will the 240gr-250gr boolits be just fine? The gun is primarily going to be a deer gun, hogs second, and elk third. There are so many different opinions out there about what to use it makes my head spin a lot of times.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

hey, that load of 20grs, and of course you, shot pretty darn good! what range was that? you might try 20.5grs, see if it tightens up even more, I doubt you will notice a difference in recoil, I think your boolits are 15-20 grains heavier than mine but will still be within reasonable pressures, and recoil is about like a lightweight 357 mag with the 20.5/296 and 270gr keith. you are doing well, and I cant wait to try to show you a target that's just a little bit better!!lol, that's why I need to know your range!

[dvnv]

Regarding loads with H110/296...IME, enough powder to fit snugly to the base of the seated bullet (maybe with some very mild compression) has proven to be a happy place for H110/296 in a wide variety of calibers and bullet weights. That is what I would work towards if I had no load data. fwiw, dvnv

[newton]

hey, that load of 20grs, and of course you, shot pretty darn good! what range was that? you might try 20.5grs, see if it tightens up even more, I doubt you will notice a difference in recoil, I think your boolits are 15-20 grains heavier than mine but will still be within reasonable pressures, and recoil is about like a lightweight 357 mag with the 20.5/296 and 270gr keith. you are doing well, and I cant wait to try to show you a target that's just a little bit better!!lol, that's why I need to know your range!

Those were 100 yards. Off a rest of course. I sure hope you can show me up, seeing how you have the same gun as me then you can tell me the exact load to use and I won't have to wonder anymore. lol

[newton]

Regarding loads with H110/296...IME, enough powder to fit snugly to the base of the seated bullet (maybe with some very mild compression) has proven to be a happy place for H110/296 in a wide variety of calibers and bullet weights. That is what I would work towards if I had no load data. fwiw, dvnv

I've heard of doing this. I have not measured the distance that there is between boolit base and powder with the 20gr charge, but I do know there is some reasonable space there when I hold a boolit to the outside of the case where it would be crimped.