25-20 range results

[atr]

got out to the range to try a load for my 25-20
85 gr RCBS Plain Base with 9 gr of 4227
0.258 to 0.259 dia.
only first grease groove lubricated
3x scope / sandbag rest

at 25 yds...1" groups no key-holes

at 50 yds...1.5" groups no key-holes

no barrel leading

I would like to hear if anyone shoots this boolit and has better success with it. It is NOT as accurate as my 65 gr Gas Check boolit load.

[square butte]

What are you shooting them out of ?

[atr]

a Savage bolt action...if my memory serves me its a model 23
I know it has a 1:16 twist
65 gr cast GC and 86 gr FL Jacketed both shoot very accurately, much more accurately than this 85gr cast.

[country gent]

What velocity are your loads giving compared to the jacket 86 grn load ? While now key holes with the longer bullets and twist you may be on the edge of stabilizing and a little more velocity ( if you have room for it pressure wise for it) may help some. Also you might experiment with neck tension some.

If you have a chronograph the info it provides may be usefull, Standard deviation, extreme spreads and actual velocity may help to shed some light on issues.

[atr]

Yes, I think I am close and my next step will be to increase velocity.
thanks
atr

[Catshooter]

A couple of friends and I have been shooting our various .25-20s and have found that the Lyman 257420 is the most accurate boolit, by far.


Cat

[ole_270]

In a big thread on another site a poster mentioned that the RCBS bullet had huge lube grooves meant for early black powder loads. He said he had better luck tumble lubing this bullet to limit lube purge accuracy problems.

[atr]

yes the RCBS 85 gr boolit does have large lube grooves which is why I only lubricated the first groove

[45workhorse]

I want to get a single shot in this caliber

[Chill Wills]

yes the RCBS 85 gr boolit does have large lube grooves which is why I only lubricated the first groove

Is that the first groove from the base or the first one into the barrel???

[Chill Wills]

I want to get a single shot in this caliber

Me too. I have a RB action set aside and a 14 twist barrel. Just need a reamer I like and time.

[atr]

first groove from base

[35remington]

I would suggest checking accuracy with less powder as well. Experiment with bullet seating depth to optimize fit and jump to rifling, preferably minimizing jump and clearance in chamber throat and neck. Dacron is a personal preference as it eliminates gas cutting and reduces velocity variations. I would try all the above with 6.5-8 grain charges.

Keep velocities modest with plainbase bullets in the 25-20, below 1400 fps preferably and certainly not over 1500 fps. Even the bottom lube groove has a great plenty of lube when used alone. Shoot a number, say five and better yet ten, of five shot groups when refining loads so you can look at accuracy trends and establish the suitability of lube use, amount used and type of lube for extended use. Less is usually better. I use very little by most standards.

Also evaluate point of impact for first shot out of cold barrel after a long layoff to check sensitivity to bore condition. This is important to know for match shooting or hunting use. I do a great deal of hunting with the 25-20. The RCBS has good accuracy potential when shot out of my guns but its quirks must be known and its preferences catered to.

NOE may still have our improved RCBS design for sale in PB and GC that we designed to address some of the RCBS bullets shortcomings. Lube capacity is still in gracious plenty. Spring for the GC design if you want to since you already have a plainbase that can be made to work. The meplat is a little larger and the grooves are narrower, and the driving bands are wider in the NOE design. I believe it is listed as 89 grains in weight but overall length is about the same as the RCBS.

Elsewhere I did mention the RCBS bullet carries too much lube and it does. Extensive group testing clearly bore this idea out. Lube purge fliers were a considerable problem until I went to lightly tumble lubing it. Just for grins you may wish to try that as well. Fit the bullet to throat if overlarge.

In 1-10 twist OTT Contender barrel and optimum charges of 4227, 2400 or 4759 0.7” five shot groups over multiple group averages shot on the same paper target at fifty yards are a matter of verifiable record I have posted elsewhere using the RCBS bullet. Given a favorably throated rifle and run at the velocity I have described and no faster the bullet should shoot, as this also worked at the one inch level in a rethroated TC custom shop barrel.

The bullet is a favorite of mine, but results often depend on tweaking the load and the chamber and throat dimensions of the rifle.

[Pioneer2]

I want to get a single shot in this caliber

Why not pick up an H+R single shot in .22Hornet and get a re-bore done?

[Rodfac]

RCBS' 85 gr. PBFP Cowboy boolit & some comments on Lyman's 257420GC:

In my 1936 vintage Winchester M-65 (a pistol gripped, 22" bbl'd, half mag, lever gun), I've had good results with 35 Remington's suggestions as to loads, fillers, and powder selections. Both Winchester 231 & 2400 have given me sub-1/2" gps at 35 yds with a peep sight and bead sighting arrangement. My mold from RCBS throws bullets at 0.260"+-, with a 1:3 Pb/WW alloy and water quenching hot from the mold. I also double lube them with Lee Liquid Alox (LLA) or White Label's 45-45-10 diluted 30% with paint thinner. The RCBS boolit, along with Lyman's excellent 257420 (without the GC & which drops at the same dia.) do equally well, lubed as above, & with no sizing whatsoever.

Per 35 Rem's experience, I found grouping with 2400 was significantly better with a dacron filler, with the long RCBS boolit. However, the filler made no difference with the Lyman boolit sans GC, (perhaps because it does not extend down past the neck into the shoulder area as does the RCBS 85 grainer.) I haven't used a filler with 231 with either boolit as groups have been more than I could ask for with 71 yo eyes doing the steering and peep & post sights!

Additionally, I tried conventional lubing in the RCBS' lower groove only and groups promptly doubled in size. The Lyman shoots equally well with or without the GC and with full lubing. It's just a good, non-picky bullet. The use of LLA or 45-45-10 and eliminating the sizing step, sure makes for easy practice or plinking ammunition and with zero leading too.

I do use a .22 cal bore snake every 30-40 rounds, mostly out of habit, and find that the first shot out of a cold barrel is an inch out of the group. It's an area of exploration yet to be...explored! How to get that first shot after a pull through in with the rest but may not be possible.

Minimum charges of 231 or 2400 are used to get the groupings above...I'm interested only in good targets, not speed. But both shoot fast enough for small game use out to the limits of the peep sight and post that gun carries.

Crimping doesn't seem to be necessary, at least with regards to set-back, even with rounds stacked to the limits of the magazine length. I've tried both light and moderate roll and taper crimping, however and seem to get marginally better groups with a light roll crimp. The test has only been 3-4 groups, so it's far from statistically significant. I haven't isolated any results worth reporting with the taper variety...though I do think that it's easier on the brass and may be less damaging to the bullet as it opens up.

Brass is a topic that should be important to all .25-20 shooters...it's just not available any longer. I've recently taken to making it from 32-20 Starline brass with excellent results. It's not difficult but does include an annealing step. Too, the finished cases mic 0.020" shorter than factory new .25-20's. It's not a significant factor other than adjusting the crimping operation to account for the shorter case. Newly formed cases, BTW have run over 10 loadings so far with few losses...albeit with light to moderate loadings.

HTH's and a special thanks to 35 Remington to his yeoman work with the cartridge. Rod