445 SuperMag rifle load with 250 keith for deer and hogs

[Beanhead]

This is my first post on the fourm so I hope Im in the right place. I have been loading 38 special and 44mag for about 3 years now with cast boolits and realy love the hobby. I am a huge fan of Elmer Keith and his 250 grain SWC. I have been loading 44 mag loads for my rifle but have always used xtp bullets. Well just recently had my CVA 44 mag reamed out to 445 SuperMagnum. I have been experimenting with HornadyÂ’s 265gr flat point jsp but I realy want to start shooting cast in it.

My goal is to find a load suitable for killing deer out to 200 yards though shots inside of 150 yards will be the norm. I also plan to hunt hogs inside of 75 yards. Ideally I would like to find one load suitable for both senarios as either one could happen on any weekend durring hunting season. I know that shot placement is key but I need a load capable of putting the animal down fast as I hunt in the swamp and finding a deer that runs more than 50-60 yards after being hit is challenging if not impossible. I rather blow up both front shoulders or let it walk than lose the whole deer.

I am using Starline brass reamed out to accommodate large rifle primers and the only powder i have on my shelf suitable is IMR 4227. Im thinking about loading some 250 grain Keith SWC boolits with gas check from montana bullet works and im hoping for 2000fps -2200fps. Im hoping this will give me a hard hitting load for hogs up close yet shoot flat enough to reach out to 200 yards if the oportunity comes.

Will the Keith bullet work for my intended purpose at that range or should I be looking at a differnt style boolit? Can the cast boolit handle that velocity? I plan to practice a lot but am I looking for too much to make this caliber effective at 200 yards? Any feedback and all suggestions are appreciated.

[stubert]

Is it safe to ream the primer pockets to a larger size? Why would you want to?

[leadman]

I shot a lot of 445SM years ago. Saw no reason to use a large rifle primer but it should not harm the case as only the depth is changed a little.
My gun was a Contender 14" barrel that started life as a 44 mag. I found it did not have quite the velocity I wanted so had it reamed out again to 444 Marlin.
I found the 444 Marlin with the Lee 310gr RFN GC would handle over 1,800 fps out of my barrel but recoil was brutal.
I could keep them in about 6" at 200 yards off a solid bench. There was a lot of elevation needed to get to 200 yards with a 100 yard zero. The Hornady 265gr was a little faster and had less drop so if you stay around that weight you should be good. You may not be able to be able to get the velocity you are looking for but that is not the most important part of the equation.
I shot a cow elk with a Ruger SBH 44 mag with the Lee 310gr bullet at 1,100 fps at 75 yards a long time ago. Made a 44 cal. hole in the near side with a matching hole on the far side. Went thru the lungs, just missing the heart. Elk ran about 75 yards and laid down and I finished her off. A cast bullet has excellent penetration most times.

[475AR]

This is my first post on the fourm so I hope Im in the right place. I have been loading 38 special and 44mag for about 3 years now with cast boolits and realy love the hobby. I am a huge fan of Elmer Keith and his 250 grain SWC. I have been loading 44 mag loads for my rifle but have always used xtp bullets. Well just recently had my CVA 44 mag reamed out to 445 SuperMagnum. I have been experimenting with HornadyÂ’s 265gr flat point jsp but I realy want to start shooting cast in it.

My goal is to find a load suitable for killing deer out to 200 yards though shots inside of 150 yards will be the norm. I also plan to hunt hogs inside of 75 yards. Ideally I would like to find one load suitable for both senarios as either one could happen on any weekend durring hunting season. I know that shot placement is key but I need a load capable of putting the animal down fast as I hunt in the swamp and finding a deer that runs more than 50-60 yards after being hit is challenging if not impossible. I rather blow up both front shoulders or let it walk than lose the whole deer.

I am using Starline brass reamed out to accommodate large rifle primers and the only powder i have on my shelf suitable is IMR 4227. Im thinking about loading some 250 grain Keith SWC boolits with gas check from montana bullet works and im hoping for 2000fps -2200fps. Im hoping this will give me a hard hitting load for hogs up close yet shoot flat enough to reach out to 200 yards if the oportunity comes.

Will the Keith bullet work for my intended purpose at that range or should I be looking at a differnt style boolit? Can the cast boolit handle that velocity? I plan to practice a lot but am I looking for too much to make this caliber effective at 200 yards? Any feedback and all suggestions are appreciated.

What length barrel is your CVA? The 250gr Keith will kill, I have used them in 44 mag alot. You will need to test your loads and unless the bullets are super hard pushing them to 2000-2200fps may not be the best answer. I have never run the Montana 250gr Keith bullets that fast they may not have the accuracy you are looking for? If you are set on shooting 200yds I would suggest using the Montana 250gr LFN GC bullets, they will shoot better out past 100yds and kill just as well. Also using IMR 4227 should work you will have to start at the low end and work up especially since your brass is reamed for large rifle primers the earliest 445 SM/Gates brass had large rifle primers but they were changed to large pistol primers and most of the loading data was done using large pistol primers.

[Beanhead]

My rifle has a 22” barrel. Most of the data from hodgdon and everything else I was able to find called for large rifle primers. Probably due to the orginal cases. Starline’s website states that the brass is made for pistol primers but may be reamed to use rifle primers so I reamed them to match the load data I found.

When loading the 265 hornady i loaded out past the cannelure. I belive COL was 2.070” long with 33grs of IMR 4227. Velocity was right around 1925fps at the muzzel so I expect a 250 grain cast bullet to go a little faster. The best groups I have been able to achive with the 265 jsp bullet is 3.5” at 100 yards. I was getting 1.5” groups with the 240xtp when shooting it as a 44 mag so I am looking for better acuracy than the 3.5” groups I am currently getting. I would go back to the 240 xtp but Im scared it wouldnt hold together at that velocity when hitting bones.

Most jacketed 44 bullets seem to be designed for either 44 mag or 444 marlin and I belive that the 445 supermag is in the middle. That is the reason Im looking to shoot cast. Montana bullet works 44 bullets are listed at 22BHN and heat treated. I will look into the 250 LFN as I have not thought of that design. Will a gas checked 22bhn bullet hold up at 2000-2200fps? Thanks for all the help. This will be my first venture at loading cast for a rifle and hopefully I can put some meat on the table with it

[mdi]

Well, Elmer reported killed a deer at 600 yards with his bullet/load in a handgun. You should be able to develop a load with that bullet that would do the job at 200...

Another good bullet for this purpose id Ranch Dog's 265 gr. RNFP originally designed for the Marlin 44 lever gun. I have used this bullet in my 3, 44 Magnum revolvers, one Contender and my Puma...http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/

[500Linebaughbuck]

i have killed many deer with 275gr ranch dog in my 444 marlin. also i use a 280gr wfn gc with 25.5gr of 2400(dacron) in 444 marlin. the 250gr keith is a deer killer, i use a 44 spl with that.

you can buy them(275gr rd and 250gr keith) on bullshop.
https://bullshop.weebly.com/-44-cali...t-bullets.html

[475AR]

Will a gas checked 22bhn bullet hold up at 2000-2200fps? Thanks for all the help. This will be my first venture at loading cast for a rifle and hopefully I can put some meat on the table with it

At those velocities I would only use a gas checked cast bullet, a plain based bullet more than likely will lead the barrel something bad. In my experience with plain based cast bullets velocities top out about 1600fps then need a gas check. Could you do higher speeds maybe but you will have to test it in your gun. Don't get me wrong, the Keith bullet is a great design and yes Elmer Keith did shoot it and take deer at 200 plus yards with it but he was not shooting it @ 2000+fps. I would suggest actually shooting the load you are going to hunt with @ 200yds and verify how it does @ that distance. I have seen some loads that group well @100yds fall apart @ 200yds. One thing to remember is these bullets are not aerodynamic like a 142gr 6.5 bullet and they drop like rocks past 100yds.

[500Linebaughbuck]

At those velocities I would only use a gas checked cast bullet, a plain based bullet more than likely will lead the barrel something bad. In my experience with plain based cast bullets velocities top out about 1600fps then need a gas check. Could you do higher speeds maybe but you will have to test it in your gun. Don't get me wrong, the Keith bullet is a great design and yes Elmer Keith did shoot it and take deer at 200 plus yards with it but he was not shooting it @ 2000+fps. I would suggest actually shooting the load you are going to hunt with @ 200yds and verify how it does @ that distance. I have seen some loads that group well @100yds fall apart @ 200yds. One thing to remember is these bullets are not aerodynamic like a 142gr 6.5 bullet and they drop like rocks past 100yds.

i agree with that, but i'd say 1500fps+ needs a gas check. i take all of my big bores and shoot them out to 150 yards, except the 500 linebaugh(rifle), thats about 125 yards. 200 yards and under is a 30 caliber thing(just me).

also, take your velocity down to 1500-1700fps.

[Beanhead]

Well I was hoping for 2000fps or better to give me a flatter trajectory. 1600-1700fps using a 250grain bullet is obtainable with a 44mag rifle. With the 445 Supermag I am looking to shoot a little further than was possible with my 44 mag.

475AR suggested that I try a 250grain LFN so I called Montana Bullet works and they also recomended the 250 LFN so i ordered 100 to try. They are 22bhn and gas checked. I will try these out and test them. If they do not preform like I want I will jump up to a 300grain bullet at 1700-1800fps. Thanks to all

[mdi]

Sometime we just can't get everything we want out of a handload. Every firearm, bullet, and load have their limitations. (Thar's why I went to a 44 Magnum after I figgered my 357 wasn't enough)...

[Beanhead]

Yeah I am already starting to wish I would have had the rifle reamed out to 444 marlin and it may be one day but for now I already have it reamed to 445 supermag and have some brass so I will play with it. Thats what its all about right?

[Markopolo]

Slower speed larger boolit would be my thing, but the distance will still be a problem... I will tell you that the Lee 310 GC hard cast boolit will spin those hogs but never be practical for the fast speeds your looking at... but at 1500 FPS it will do a number on anything in North America... but a Flat heavy boolit will really have trouble with the accuracy you want at those speeds over 100 yards in my experience.. I am sure even the devistators or ranch dogs will struggle past 100-150 yards even with the best load at those speeds... not only that, but what a shoulder thumper it would be at that speed.. doesn't meant it can't be done.. just that I can't do it...

Marko

[Beanhead]

Well it sounds like the odds are agaisnt me making this rifle work at 200 yards. I will still try though because I have 10 months until hunting season starts again and its always fun to shoot and try to make a load work. If it turns out to be unsuccessful with the lighter bullets at that range I will definitely take all of the advise given to me here and load some heavy bullets at a slower speed and keep my shots within a closer range. I have even been looking hard at getting the lyman 429640Hp devestator mold to learn to cast my own.
The only reason I want 200 yards out of it is because that is the farthest I can see at any of my stands. If the rifle is capable of 200 yard shots I would have confidence that anything I see would be within range if I do my part. Realistically 90% of the shots will be within 150 yards or less so if I can get that out of it I will be satisfied. I have a 270 Win that I do most of my hunting with so this 445 supermag is more of a hobby rifle than anything else. Unless I get it to preform at the longer ranges then the model 70 just might become a safe queen.

[bikerbeans]

I have built several 445 sm rifles, marlin 336s and handi rifles, and have found AA1680 to be the best powder. I have pushed the Hornady 265g FN to about 1,900 fps with a load that is safe in a lever gun. I think that 200 yard MPBR with a 445sm will be a challenge. The 444 marlin launching factory loaded 265g bullets will barely achieve 200 yard MPBR and the 444 has much more room for powder. Your 445sm would have enough energy for a 200 yard kill but I think you are gonna have to hold abit high.

Good luck,

BB

[mdi]

Even if your bollit's trajectory is like a rainbow, and there's enough energy left, as long as you can hit what you'r aimin' at you should be OK...

[Beanhead]

I do belive the trajectory will be like a rainbow but I plan to zero the rifle about 3” high at 100 yards. That should level it out a little and take away not all but some guess work at the longer ranges.

If i find 200 yards is not achievable I will be happy to find a load that shoot accurate at 100 yards. I finished the hunting season off using the Hornady 265 fp loaded to 1900fps but the best I have been able to get with it so far is a 4” group. I expect way better than 4” at 100 yards.