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Thread: Is It "Build" Or "Assemble" An AR15?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    lefty o's Avatar
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    its all semantics. like alluded to above the auto references. hang aorund cars long enough and you will get tired of being asked if your ride has a BUILT engine. of course its built, it wouldnt run if it was in pieces! "does that have a cam in it", well of course, the dang valves dont open and close without one!

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I've always distinguished between a gunsmith who makes or alters parts for the guns he builds or repairs and an armorer who changes parts on guns he builds or repairs. If you want to replace the word "build" with the word "assembles" in my description, that wouldn't bother me, but I don't think that single word is that big a deal nor as big a distinction as that between gunsmith and parts changer. JMHO, YMMV!

    Froggie
    Last edited by Green Frog; 02-03-2018 at 05:38 PM.
    "It aint easy being green!"

  3. #23
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    Some are built most are assembled.
    Many armorers very Few gunsmiths.
    The modularity and ease of parts replacement make it easier for folks to work on than its' predecessors.

    With cars we have one guy at work that claims to have "built" his but has nearly zero mechanical aptitude so we are pretty sure he paid to have it built as opposed to the rest of those that actually built/rebuilt their own.
    Last edited by DCM; 02-03-2018 at 05:03 AM.
    "Don't worry what they think. In the end it is not between them and you, it is between you and God."

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  4. #24
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    IMO if someone buys parts from different suppliers/sources and thus mixs&matchs to "create" a one-of-a-kind custom firearm then either term would be appropriate. A term such as "built from scratch", for example, could be used to differentiate between actually building as opposed to assembling parts but even then a 100% scratch built example might be extremely rare. Two Highwall type rifles I did were built using raw steel bar and as much DIY as practical, right down to even the springs and small screws were custom built (I even sawed the Walnut used for the stocks), but I still had to buy barrel blanks that were already bored and rifled plus I used a factory made rear sight on one of them and factory made brass butt plates on both. So neither rifle was 100% "scratch built" and both used at least partially pre-made parts (pre bored and rifled barrel blanks, etc) but I am comfortable saying I "built" these rifles. I suppose somewhere there may be a point of distinction between the two terms but who is to say where that might be?
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    As a wood and steel gun builder, I call it assemblers. I find it offensive when someone wants to show me an AR, and telling me they "built" it.
    I agree completely.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_P View Post
    Well, we do build a house. Some pieces are custom cut to length and such. Never did hear of someone 'assembling' a house. Unless that's what they do with pre-fab pieces. Built in a factory, assembled on-site.

    But, we assemble cars from the parts 'built' by others in a factory. But we build a custom car as we might just need to make a one-off piece here or there.

    So, if we have to put a file to some piece is it now a build?

    Now for the hardest of the unasked questions:

    Does it matter?

    A similar analogy could be made of internal combustion engines. Does an 'engine builder' cast the block, crankshaft, heads, etc, etc, ad nauseam?

    In my opinion, the difference between a 'builder' and an 'assembler' lies in the fitting.

    Many and more can take a pile of parts and assemble a finished piece.

    Fewer can take rough castings/forgings and 'build' a finely finished piece from the rough beginnings.

    And then we have the 'Designers' . .. .

    And yes, I think it matters.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  7. #27
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    At first I thought "who cares!" But I see that some do care and feel really strong about, my advice get over it!
    I've built cabins, campers engines and guns, I've also rebuilt them too not much difference.
    It's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years (Abe Lincoln)

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. George Washington

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlin101 View Post
    At first I thought "who cares!" But I see that some do care and feel really strong about, my advice get over it!
    I've built cabins, campers engines and guns, I've also rebuilt them too not much difference.
    Very well, Sir. You have your opinion, I have mine.
    Missing the target is not the worst thing you can do.
    Not taking the shot is.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_P View Post
    Well, we do build a house. Some pieces are custom cut to length and such. Never did hear of someone 'assembling' a house. Unless that's what they do with pre-fab pieces. Built in a factory, assembled on-site.
    As someone that does build things and takes pride in my craftsmanship it always cracks me up, actually I find it offensive, when people say they're building a house when what the really mean is they're having someone build a house for them. Same with ARs, same with ARF radio controlled airplanes. (ARF= Almost Ready to Fly; already built and covered, final assembly is required.)

    When I build my main hunting rifle I chucked a piece of bar stock in the lathe and made a mandrel for the Mauser action. Put the action on it and trued it up. Drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Fitted and chambered the barrel. Glass and pillar bedded the action. Did extensive mods to the Mauser trigger guard in a milling machine. Welded on the floor plate, filed and polished it. Fitted a new trigger and safety. Forged the bolt handle and re-polished it. Polished and hot blued the whole thing. I do believe that's building.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  10. #30
    I think that's just from the "tactical" fraternity trying to make something out to be more than it is. Or maybe it is a generational thing. I'm still chuckling over how many wannabe's get tactical by "running" equipment; I generally "use" things like scopes, binoculars...
    Hey, what kind of EDC (tacticool speak for the pocketknife that you put in your front pocket) are you "running?" I am running an Old Timer jackknife.
    Just havin' fun dudes.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    I don't say I Built A Mauser Rifle.
    In most cases, I say, I Built this rifle on a Mauser Action.
    I will take credit for what I Built, but unless I built the action, how can that figure into my skills.
    But To me, Putting a new Barrel on a Mauser action that was a screw on replacement, and slapping it into a plastic stock, is just assembling.
    It is the fitting of the part and related parts to make it as accurate as it can be, ( Like Bedding, Building the stock from a blank and Fitting the sights to a blank barrel ), That is the Build.
    But if the Mauser action is Rebuilt like Truing the action, lapping the lugs and drilling it for scope mounts, then I add the words in, I built this on a Rebuilt Mauser action.
    Last edited by LAGS; 02-18-2018 at 08:49 PM.

  12. #32
    I just built a great cup of coffee this morning; running whole milk since my creamer ran out.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inthealders View Post
    I just built a great cup of coffee this morning; running whole milk since my creamer ran out.
    you must have stayed at a holiday inn!!! LOL

  14. #34
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    I guess I am old fashioned I build on an action, make or fit a stock. only build on an AR action if I turn thread, chamber and install barrel hood and headspace barrel. the rest is assembling parts.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega View Post
    It's like asking what are we doing when we melt wheel weights into ingots. The convention is to call it smelting, but many here have argued, correctly, that it is not correct to call it that.
    Why some folks insist on using the wrong word or terminology is beyond me but not only will they but they often get fighting mad over it! "Smelting" is definitely NOT what we are doing when we MELT lead and it just sounds silly to those of us who have worked with metals our entire working career. Another one I saw two fellows almost come to blows over is "Sabot" (SAY-BOW) and it's common to hear "Sa-BOT", the "T" is silent just as it is in Depot yet some guys will argue vehemently even when it's explained to them!
    Last edited by oldred; 02-24-2018 at 06:28 PM. Reason: TWO not TOW
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  16. #36
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    Exactly, when someone takes a piece of raw bar stock and then trims off all the metal that doesn't look like the gun he wants THEN he has "Built" a gun!


    Just re-read this and I'm a bit puzzled by what happened to the post I replied to?
    Last edited by oldred; 02-26-2018 at 08:44 AM.
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

  17. #37
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    On the ATF website they it is legal to "make" a firearm for personal use. I guess the same a build or assemble but a local San Diego gun shop was selling the parts for an AR-15 to a person that had passed the background check for the "lower" receiver. They would the put all those pieces together for an additional fee and they got their FFL pulled since they did not have a "manufacturer's license"! Since they could not find a lawyer that knew the gun laws (I was told) they closed and reopened with a new person holding the FFL paperwork, shutdown for several months.

    Oldred and some others have given a pretty good example of built and my mentor built a 45-70 Sharps from scratch except for the barrel as his lathe is a bit too small so a local person built the barrel for him. He also fitted the stock but had another master do the checkering and finish. It won a national championship years ago and he was offered 50K or something similar for it but........his son will get it. In my case with the muzzleloaders, I buy the barrel, lock, trigger and such and finish them and in some cases make the stock from scratch or maybe buy a partial shaped stock. I am not quite that good with my Harbor Freight milling machine!

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    its all semantics. like alluded to above the auto references. hang aorund cars long enough and you will get tired of being asked if your ride has a BUILT engine. of course its built, it wouldnt run if it was in pieces! "does that have a cam in it", well of course, the dang valves dont open and close without one!
    I get tired of "built not bought". I'm smart enough to know when to pay a professional. I have all the respect in the world for the guys that can do everything themselves. But I'm not one of them. My cars have always had most of the aspects being bought.

    ARs are a grownup form of Lagos. So use whatever term you would use for Legos. I can tell you I'm not about to tell my 3yo son that he didn't build a Lego structure of some sort. In his mind he built it and that's all that matters.

  19. #39
    Boolit Man
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    I can agree with everything said, It's just a matter of "Perspective". I can build Furniture and Cabinets with plywood and lumber, but I didn't (nor can I) "Build" the plywood or particle board. I built my house,(framing, shingles, drywall, electrical and Kitchen Cab.s) but I had a lot of help. (I hired a plumber so I wouldn't wake up to any nasty smells) So I can understand when someone gets all bent over me Assembling/Building my Toys. I will make a distinction in the future, depending on who I am talking to.

    "Why some folks insist on using the wrong word or terminology is beyond me" ... I'd call it Ignorance.

    I have talked to a lot of People who think a "Cartridge" is a "Bullet" because they don't have the knowledge to understand what they are talking about.(and some want to tell me I shouldn't own a gun)

    So I guess that, in light of recent events in the news. I do think it is important to distinguish this topic, or it will soon be. Because we all need enlightenment in some area's of our lives. I may not be right, but I'm not completely wrong.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nun2kute View Post
    I have talked to a lot of People who think a "Cartridge" is a "Bullet" because they don't have the knowledge to understand what they are talking about.(and some want to tell me I shouldn't own a gun)
    Liberals?

    Quote Originally Posted by nun2kute View Post
    So I guess that, in light of recent events in the news. I do think it is important to distinguish this topic, or it will soon be. Because we all need enlightenment in some area's of our lives. I may not be right, but I'm not completely wrong.

    Some of the same folks who get all bent out of shape at the media for terminology errors, accidental or intentional, ("Assault Rifle" or "machine gun" for any AR or AK type rifle, etc) will then themselves continue to use a wrong term and sometimes even get upset if anyone points it out! I suppose it's harmless enough and I'm not telling anyone to do differently but come on wrong is wrong and we should set the example that we know what we are talking about unlike the news media!
    Statistics show that criminals commit fewer crimes after they have been shot

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