357 Herrett serious cast loads

[curioushooter]

Despite being a active caster, I am a bit intimidated by the 357 Herrett. What I would like to do is find a cast boolit in the 180-200 grain range that can be pushed at real 357 Herrett power (that is, about 1800-2000 FPS at 41,000 CUP with 34 grains of AA1680). This has worked beautifully with jacketed bullets so far, but I have never tired cast, partly because I can't find any appealing molds.

I have a 158 grain Tumble-lube Lee mold that I love, but that is too light. Basically, if I could get that mold upped to 200 grains I'd be happy, since Tumble-lube designs work well paper-jacketed, which is what I might end up having to do to run it at those velocities.

Out of a 14" barrel you can get leading. When I bought my barrel it was SEVERELY leaded, and took a week to clean out. Any ideas?

[shorty500]

At those velocities I would suggest a gas check design. I have great luck with the NEI mold I use that drops in at 193 w/ check seated and lubed. Don’t recall the number but it’s a truncated cone style with a wide meplat and the crimp groove is located so that can use in short cylindered S&W m27/28s. I use H4227 and load it in the Magnum, Maximum and the AutoMag cartridges. When had a Herret barrel it worked good at velocities you desire. Once you get to 170 grains and above all the .357s really begin to act like the powerhouses they should be

[curioushooter]

Yes, 35 caliber doesn't come into its own till 158 grains IMO. And it knocks down the rams better above 170!

I'll check out the mold. I'm concerned that even with a check with 14" of barrel I'm going to run out of lube and get leading.

[JSH]

Yes, 35 caliber doesn't come into its own till 158 grains IMO. And it knocks down the rams better above 170!

Not in the Herret yet, but 170 and up I get better accuracy I will agree. If your shooting steel for score, running the same load start to finish, recoil will get to you. Take my word for it. I use a 358311 all the way to 150 meters. Then at 200 I switch.

I'll check out the mold. I'm concerned that even with a check with 14" of barrel I'm going to run out of lube and get leading.

If your getting leading, I would say it is size and alloy. Most lubes today are pretty good. We have run the 358311 through the 35 Whelan with stiff loads for fireforming. No leading.
To hard is or can be as bad as to soft. After having shot cast for a day or two now, I tend to go towards softer rather than harder. Harder tends to skid, then grab the rifling, giving you leading.
If it is the lube, I suspect it is some of the liquid tumble lube, which I am not sold on myself.
I have shot a lot through my 35 Remington rimmed, going way faster than you are going to get with the Herret with out a lot of work. Same goes for my 357's, I crowd them pretty hard.

Bad thing with a lot of these older wildcats, no data for the new available powders. Buddy runs Benchmark in his.

Jeff

[rockrat]

Try the Lee 358-200 or the RCBS 35-200. Water cooled WW's might be plenty as far as alloy. Size to .359 or .360 depending on your groove dia. I like to go .002" over groove.

[rking22]

358200 stated above shoots fine in my 35whelen short. No shortage of lube and I took it to 2150 in WD 50/50. Runs very well in my 14 inch Herrett as well but I only run it arround 1600 to 1700, more than plenty for anything I hunt and no bad at all on the back end! Work with quick rifle powders as stated above, 4227 has stretched some frames!

[curioushooter]

I am not sure what you are getting at with leading. The only lube I use is LLA. If I am going to go through the trouble of buying and using a lubrisizer I'll just paper jacket it and not worry.

My observation is that long barrels simply have too much surface area for the amount of lube carried by a bullet. Out of short handguns no prob. Out of a 357 mag Rossi I see leading near muzzle. I could be interpreting this incorrectly, but that is what it seems like.

I switched over to paper jacketing all cast bullets for barrels over 5" a few years ago and haven't looked back, but I still think it would be neat to simply roll quenched, as cast wheel weighs and roll them in LLA and not observe leading in rifles! A man can dream.

I've never read of 35 Rem rimmed. Does it have the same neck lenght?

And regarding 357 Herrett data, I doubt there is a better powder than AA1680. 34 grains is strong medicine IMO. And I use a G2, so I don't worry about frame stretching.

[7br]

If you are wanting to avoid the cost of a lubrisizer, you might consider powder coat and a lee push through die.

[JSH]

My take on leading, size is king. Bore condition, alloy,lube. If you see leading one, a couple or all are past their limit.

This may be met by howls from folks, I have never gotten the performance or consistent results from tumble lubes. Gosh darn it I have tried too!

If you are paper patching, I am going to guess you are not a volume shooter. When I started casting I had to have or struggled for MOA to 200. It didn't happens over night but I got it. Paper patching for 2-4 calibers, I need at least 50-60 rounds per gun per weekend. I just didn't have the time to do that amount of paper patching. If you seek pure accuracy with speed, paper patching is the direction I would go.

35 Remington rimmed, they are out there. Make brass from 30-40Krag or 303 British. Nothing more than a rimmed 35 Remington. Run Brit or Krag brass into die and trim, done. Rim takes care of ignition issues, I still headspace off of the shoulder.

If you are getting leading in your 357 carbine, and others are not in Whelans should give you a hint of the issue. Cast bullets are not just a short barrel projectile. I have 350 Remington mag that I am getting ready to mess with. Nothing more than a short Whelan. I run cast in a lot of rifles in a lot of different calibers, 22-45. Some carbine, some rifle, I will not put up with any leading.

Your comment on not being worried about frame stretch because it is a G2, yes they are a bit stiffer than the Contender, but don't get to comfortable with that kind of thinking. All of the stretched frames that I personally know of and the person that did it,involved powders that were a bit on the fast side.

My comment on powders. Just what I said. Look at how long ago a lot of the these wildcats were put into service. Powders have come leaps and bounds forward. There are those out there that have applied these new powders to early wildcats with some gains. When Steve and Bob came out with these, I was in awe. I just thought that was the coolest thing in the world, I was in my early teens. Once I stepped into reloading and fooled with several cartridges that they deemed inferior on the TC platform, I never figured out what their angle was.
In my opinion it was back to the old silly thoughts of, "handgun length barrels need to use fast pistol powders". Or they are inefficient. When the first rifle type cartridge was poked into a TC a long time ago, efficient was thrown out the door! They whole gain was ease of use and raw energy.

As Mark mentions (howdy bud good to see ya) powder coating "may" solve all your problems in one easy try. I have tinkered with it, but am not sold on it 100% yet myself.

[rking22]

Ment to state my short whelen has a 24 inch barrel, relative to lube capacity. You can use kake cutter to pan lube or just size thru a Lee push thru and finger lube if hunting or low volume. I still do that on oddballs that I don't shoot enough to bother with a custom sized die. 1680 works great, I worked up my loads years ago and keep a keg of RL7 ,so it frequently gets the nod in confidence. Get you some 358200 that fit your throat and give them a try, bet you'll be getting a mold

[curioushooter]

Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately 30-40 krag brass and good boxer primed 303 brass is considerably harder to source than 30-30, so I'll stay with herret. But that is nifty and I had no idea that they could be used that way.

Powder coating setups seem more expensive and time consuming than lubrisizer to me. I can paper patch a bullet a min. And minimal set up. But still, nothing compared to TL. Volume is what I am concerned with. Perhaps an old lubsizer is the way to go. But I have to get a mold or get some bullets and find out what is up. I haven't even slugged it yet, mainly because I have no .36 caliber round ball.

As far as efficiency is concerned, I still appreciate it, as well as dislike fireballs, booms, etc. Once adequate performance is met, more doesn't make it better in my mind. AA1680 is a slow powder, slower than H4227 and about equal to RL7. It's more dense though, and perfect for full house 357 herrett, with near 100% fill, no compression, and published book loads running just under 42k cup. A very easy conversion to make and predictable when it comes to working up loads in my experience. Does great in jacketed. Just worried about cast. Thanks!

[TCLouis]

Steel, plinkin, hunting . . .What's your need?

LAR45 and Ranch Dog both did 180ish GC GB molds and someone else did a 200 grainer RNFP GC

Might look to see if someone has one of those molds, Mountain or someone has a rendition of the RD boolit which is real close to the LAR45.

The 200 group buy 6 banger was way back when also.

[7br]

My powder coating set up consists of an $8 toaster oven from goodwill, a small piece of steel to cook the bullets on, a hemeostat, a plastic coolwhip container and some airsoft BBs.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[curioushooter]

Well, that's cheap for a setup for powder coating, but it still seems messy to me. How are you applying the stuff? I don't like working outdoors, and I don't have a painting cabinet.

[7br]

Search for Shake and Bake powder coating for more complete instructions. What I do is place about 50 airsoft bb's in a coolwhip container with about 2 tablespoons of Hi-Tek powder coating powder. Drop about 25 bullets in the container and put the lid on. Swirl it around for about 45second to a minute. Shake up and down for about a minute. Take the lid off and place the bullets on a stiff sheet covered with non stick aluminum foil. (Hemeostats are great for plucking the bullets out of the powder) Bake at 400degrees for about 20 minutes. I cast the RCBS 41-210, 45-230 and 45-200swc molds. They are about the perfect size after the process is completed. I have a 314299 lyman that I use for a 7.65 Argentine mauser that I do have to size to seat the gas check and to get the base to correct dimensions. My luck with powder coating .22 bullets was not good. I also had feed issues using powder coat for semi-auto rifles due to the increase in diameter on the front driving band. Once again, this is what I do and my results. Your mileage might vary, but it is probably worth a half hour of your time to research it. You might try this sticky. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...powder-coating