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Thread: MP - H&G 50 38 Wadcutter

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    MP - H&G 50 38 Wadcutter

    Well, I recieved my new MP mold, a H&G ”50 clone a couple of days ago.
    Today I´ve shot the first boolits.

    I used a soft alloy made out of airpellets scrap +1% tin.
    Ingots ex-rayed to 98.54% lead 1.3%tin and 0.16% iron (rust from my smelting pot?) for these HBWC´s

    As this is my first mold with pins I soon found out that both the alloy and mold had to be a bit hotter than I usually run stuff. But soon it started to throw beautiful boolits.
    I had the mold set up with 2 dome pins and 2 cone shaped ones, so I got 2 different HB shapes to try in one castingsession.
    Cone HB cameout at 129.4 grains lubed, and the dome HB at 130.5 lubed.

    One thing I noticed is that the boolits measured .357 as cast, not .360 as stated.
    I don´t know if that is due to the mold or the alloy/temp?
    Well, that made the lubeing a bit difficult (only star lube die I got is .358) to much pressure gave a lube overflow. But I managed to get the boolits lubed after some tuning of lube temperature and pressure. If this continue I will either order a .357 star die, go tumble lube or PC.

    Lube: Randys TAC-1 (only the lower groove)
    Case: GFL (Fiocchi)
    Primer: Fiocchi SP
    Powder: Vithavouri 310
    Powdercharge: 2.5 / 3.2 and 3.4 grains.
    COL: 1.265 seated to crimpgrove, or 1.189 fully seated below casemouth
    Crimp: Rollcrimp
    Gun: Ruger GP100 4”
    Range: Rested at 25m (27 yards) windy, rain and 39F

    Each charge was loaded with both coneshaped HB and domeshaped HB
    Each charge was seated either to the groove or below casemouth.
    The velocity ranged from 666ft/sec for the mildest load, to 885ft/sec for the stiffer load.

    All loads was soft to shoot, but ofcourse the lowest charges was a sneeze..
    The boolits with domeshaped bases showed slightly higher vel in the same load as the ones with coneshaped bases (due to weight?)
    The coneshaped ones was more accurate in the same load out of the two boolits.
    The deeper seating didn´t affect the accuracy much , just getting higher velocity with the same charge as those crimped to the groove.

    No load was exceptionally bad in accuracy, all shot 4 inch or less at 27 yards.
    But my goal is 2 inch or better (10 ring is 2 inch)

    The load with 3.2grains, coneshaped HB and seated to the crimpgrove and launched at 741ft/sec was the most accurate load in this short test. 5 Shots 0.787 inch C-C at 27 yards.
    Only thing to do next is to adjust the sights and cast more boolits!
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks for the all the work on testing this new bullet for others to see.Do you have any close-ups of both bullets? Are you able to test for accuracy using a Ransom Rest ? I wonder if this bullet would be accurate to 50 yards. I wonder if others are only getting a .357 bullet diameter too. I would want it sized to .358 for a bore of .357. Any comments/thoughts?

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    I asked Mihec about this and the answed I got was pretty much "use higher temp that will cast bigger boolits"
    I´m about to put PID controlers on my pot, as of now I only use a el cheapo thermometer.. But I was way over my usual temp, maybe 70F higher than with my regular alloy. And the mold was quite hotter than normal too. But no exact temp taken. I increased the temp of the pot and preheated the mold good untill I got proper fillout and the boolits dropped nice.
    I will experiment with even higher temp next session.

  4. #4
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    Hmmmm......
    I use aprox. 370 C° for casting (alloy). I use WW alloy for testing.
    www.mp-molds.com
    --------------------------------------
    If you want to win, you must not lose

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Got my mold today. Happy happy!!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Mine showed up today (while I was casting, believe it or not). It looks to be a work of art. Will try to see how it casts next week.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    SNDBGGR1484: here´s a pic of both the cone and dome.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  8. #8
    Boolit Bub
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    Thanks Swede 45 for the picture of the bullets.They look like you are getting good fill out.Has the diameter of the bullet increased with hotter alloy temperature like MiHec suggested? Why are you only lubing the bottom groove? Sorry for all the questions but I've never cast a hollow base bullet. Thanks again. I would like to hear other peoples views on this new mold.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    No, No increase of diameter, even with crazy hot alloy and mold. I´ve just posted a PM to Mihec about this.

    Tests has indicated that only one (the bottom) lubegroove lubed gives better accuracy and are enough for lubricating.
    My own tests with other WC confirms this.
    Individual testing are recomended to find your sweet spot for the load and gun.
    The only time fully lubed groves came out on top in my own tests was with a hard alloyed WC in way harder loads than normal .38spl WC range.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Anyone try casting with , the 8 cavity solid mold? Really hoping they drop at least 358 or I will have a problem.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Another cold day at the range with the H&G 50 HBWC
    This time out of a K38, shot just fine as well.
    This boolit is going to run as the new club ammo for newbies as this K38 is our loaner.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Just taking a quick break while I melt the second pot of alloy, but so far I am really impressed with the 8 cavity solid version. Beautifully made mold that is easy to work with. I am using range scrap plus some pewter for tin (2 to 3%) and a random sample of 10 bullets averaged about 146 grains. The mold consistently casts at .3595 to .360, which is perfect for my application. Cant wait to see how they shoot.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Today I tested the Lee snot tumble lube and powdercoated boolits in comparison to the traditionally lubed one that gave the best result in the first test.

    Same data as the best one above, and that load was used as a reference for velocity and accuracy.
    2 x 5 shot strings was shot at 25 meters, rested with each boolit/lube combo.

    Tested boolits both the dome and cone shaped HB pins

    Lee snot lube was applied in 2 layers, boolits was sized prior to coating.
    PC boolits was coated with 2 layers (1 layer didn´t get good coverage) and then sized.

    The cone shaped HB lubed with Tac-1 had the best accuracy and lowest average velocity. 742ft/sec and 1.1 inch c-c accuracy.
    The PC showed the worst accuracy in all, both loads exceeding 4 inch groups. The cone HB was slightly better of the two. The dome HB at 757ft/sec and cone HB at 754ft/sec in average.
    The Lee lube was the fastest ones clocking in at 810ft/sec for the dome HB and 771ft/sec for the cone HB. The cone HB showed better accuracy compared to the dome shaped HB.
    1.5 inch compared to 2.3 inch.

    With this load, in my gun and for my purpouse, I came to this conclusion:
    #Tac-1 in the bottom grove on a cone HB boolit is the best for accuracy.
    #The Lee tumble lube on a cone HB will do in a pinch, (if I run out of Tac-1 or the Star breaks..)
    #PC is not a thing for this particular load/boolit.
    #Cone HB shoots better than dome HB.

    Interesting that Lee TL gave significant higher velocities than the other lube/PC !?

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    I too have not had stellar accuracy with wadcutter designs powdercoated, my assumption is the uneven thickness on the large bearing surface. I use a traditional hg50bb and bll or hitek coating.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub
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    Swede 45 said "One thing I noticed is that the boolits measured .357 as cast, not .360 as stated" Anybody getting bigger diameter than .357?

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Today's batch.
    About 1000 boolits.
    Lubed, sized and ready to load.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    Got to the range with a bunch of test loads. I found 3.8 grains of hp38 was very accurate. I am especially happy about this because the same charge with lyman 358495 dewcs. Essentially they are interchangeable, but the mihec mold dumps them out 8 at a time.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy


    Butler Ford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swede 45 View Post
    I used a soft alloy made out of airpellets scrap +1% tin.
    Ingots ex-rayed to 98.54% lead 1.3%tin and 0.16% iron (rust from my smelting pot?) for these HBWC´s...



    One thing I noticed is that the boolits measured .357 as cast, not .360 as stated.
    I don´t know if that is due to the mold or the alloy/temp? ...
    "Multi-component alloys. Tin still improves castability by lowering viscosity and surface tension. Antimony hardens the alloy via precipitation. The tin also helps to alleviate brittleness by combining with the antimony to form an intermetallic adduct thereby improving the solubility, maintaining the hardness. Antimony also helps to reduce shrinkage as the alloy cools. The harder the alloy, the less it shrinks (lead shrinks 1.13%, linotype shrinks 0.65%)." From From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners © A joint effort by Glen E. Fryxell and Robert L. Applegate" http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm

    Mihec uses wheel weights.

    BF
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."--Plato

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check