Help Needed From Veteran Flinter's Shooting Offhand

[waksupi]

I read through your original post again and it seems you are concerned with hunting and hitting the target such as a deer? If that is the case then the "hold time" and follow through as Waksupi mentioned above are going to be fast. If you are concerned with bulls eye shooting that is different and I watch the older Schuetzen shooters and they have a very hard time holding the front sight steady even with a palm rest. Maybe the wooden flint substitute and a laser bore sighter shining on a wall will help to steady things. Have someone watch the red dot move and mark the limits with a pencil maybe?

In shutzen, most are consciously letting the rifle drift, hopefully in a figure 8, and squeeze when they are confident the shot will be in the bull when it goes off. Pass shooting, as it were. I don't know of any who really try to hold dead center to shoot in that game.

[indian joe]

I read through your original post again and it seems you are concerned with hunting and hitting the target such as a deer? If that is the case then the "hold time" and follow through as Waksupi mentioned above are going to be fast. If you are concerned with bulls eye shooting that is different and I watch the older Schuetzen shooters and they have a very hard time holding the front sight steady even with a palm rest. Maybe the wooden flint substitute and a laser bore sighter shining on a wall will help to steady things. Have someone watch the red dot move and mark the limits with a pencil maybe?

Holding steady? -----my first competitive muzzleloader shoot I got a second on countback to one of the top three shooters in Aus at that time ( I had been burning quite a bit of powder at home and my eyes were still good ) I was duly congratulated but not really that overawed because it was a sitting event and I had long held the view (expressed at the time too) that any fool can shoot off a rest - standing up is what sorts em out - I am solid built and was fit at the time so sitting for me was / is next best to a benchrest - I do well sitting - but I said to this bloke I just cant hold it steady offhand - well the front sight will hang right on the mark for maybe two seconds but I cant get the shot away that fast without pulling it - he said two things - 1) you just described how Daniel Boon won his famous match - he was able to get it done in that small space of time 2) the rest of us cant do that and if you think you will ever get to where you can hold steady on the mark offhand - you are dreaming and will get frustrated enough to give this game away - NO - its all about controlled wobbling - the more you practice offhand the smaller pattern your sights will weave on the target and the less often you will pull what you know is a bad shot - good scores are not about shooting tens - its about not shooting a bad shot EVER - he went on - have a look at a target - if you splatter ten shots inside the 7 ring - you will shoot 80+, that will place you in a lot of club comps - hunting is different - sure - but how many times do we claim the game with a bad shot?
The seven ring on our 100yard target is 8 inches across - probably half the guys on this forum will believe they can shoot a 4 inch group at 100yards offhand - I say baloney, thats 95 - if you can do that you are a world class rifle shot - they are scarce upon the ground!

[Hickory]

When I learned to shoot a flint rifle years and years ago. I found if I pulled the rifle as hard as I could into my shoulder while I was pulling the trigger I could not flinch while the shot was going off. Of course you have to focus on the front sight at the same time, and follow through keeping your eyes open. I hunted for 35 years with a flint, taking much game. The toolman.

This is the method I use along with the aid of a sling.
I am a right hand, left eye dominant flintlock shooter. It takes extra concentration to shoot through the flash inches in front of your face!

[oldracer]

Waksupi is correct in his last post and as I mentioned that is how I was taught to shoot. I didn't start muzzle loading until I was 66 or so and the arthritis has already set in and my blood circulation around my heart was getting worse all the time (finally a quad bypass 5 years ago) so I could never hold steady! Now and then I try to and get that dreaded "bulls eye fixation" and I have to make myself stop it!!!!! Oh yeah we are not allowed to use a sling.

[indian joe]

Follow through. If you aren't following through you'll always shoot low, you're dropping the shot, just like with a bow. Precisely as the others have mentioned about seeing the muzzle flash.

I disagree with that - we dont all flinch it low - most of my pulled shots go high and right - on a really bad day there maybe another one in every ten go low at about 4 o clock . Calling it follow through is kinda generous - politically correct - its a flinch does the damage. Blink eye shut -- yank trigger -- go into recoil mode before the gun starts moving -- miss target ---- it can get quite funny watching from the sidelines when somebody pulls a flinch on a empty gun or a hangfire - (cruel aint we!!!)

[Themoose]

Just an update... I have been working with the woden flint, not as much as I should, but I'm trying to make it a habit... I have gathered a supply of roundballs to go with a lighter practice load... got a couple of set screws to replace my touchhole liner to use with only powder in the pan practice... and I was able to get out with this good weather to the range and do some shooting with a vintage .22 with iron sights... soon found that my back was giving me a lot of pain for any prolonged practice... I had forgotten my basics... had to work on stance, breathing and follow thru... I just aquired the rifle at a lgs and sighted in with a rest @ 25 yards... my offhand groups were pretty dismal for the first 2 or 3, but began to tighten up... also I was able to focus more on the front sight and was pretty much able to call the shot placement by trying to focus on follow thru... Quit the standing shooting as the pain was getting to me and shot a lot seated without a rest... practice, practice... there is hope for me afterall.... I've got a lot to work on, but thanks to all of your help at least I have hope and a plan to get better... Thanks again to all who contributed.

Kindest regards,

TheMoose

[rfd]

i would recommend dropping down to 50 grains and a patched ball, 50 yards distance. offhand shooting is an art of sorts, but there are some basics to it no matter what longarm yer hefting (and the gun's balance does matter).

for practice, if possible, don't load the tube but do prime the pan - you'll be missing the recoil, which wouldn't be much if you do the right thing and load light, as you should), and you'll be getting used to what matters most: that fireball explosion going off a few inches from yer glasses and work on yer follow through.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=rfd;4296571]
for practice, if possible, don't load the tube but do prime the pan - you'll be missing the recoil, which wouldn't be much if you do the right thing and load light, as you should), and you'll be getting used to what matters most: that fireball explosion going off a few inches from yer glasses and work on yer follow through.



Just proves we all different I guess ! This would not help me much - if at all - mine is a recoil induced FLINCH ..... aquired years ago shooting heavy shotgun loads as a kid ...they say "old habits die hard" so my subconscious message became ....pull trigger = get smashed ... doesnt matter the level of recoil once the pattern is established.

I figured out what I was doing, shooting a 22/250 at night (spotlight shooting foxes) ..... see the muzzle flash = dead fox .....no muzzle flash = no fox

With the flinter the flash in the pan was never an issue (for me) .. I dont recall ever being conscious of seeing it .. never .. never seen the hammer fall .. not on flinter or caplock nor the lever guns I have shot a lot ... hear the clunk - clank - click - however you like to describe the noise of it. Whats crucial (for me) is seeing the sight picture clear after the trigger breaks. Dryfire practice helps - just concentrating on eye open seeing the front sight where its sposed to be after the trigger break - somebody earlier suggested a spring piston air rifle ..yep theres enough recoil in that mechanism to take you off target after it fires .. ten rounds a day with a 22 helps .. but for me its all about seeing that front sight after the trigger break.

I used to be able to do this - Picture below was shot with my CVA pennsylvania flinter at the Majura range Canberra - sitting position at 100yards - no spotting scopes allowed and I didnt figure the wind - by the time I had eight gone I could see the group of holes off to the right - got kinda mad at meself for not picking it so I held off to the left for those last two in the black - still wish to this day I just held centre and finished that group - those two woulda gone plumb in the middle - that woulda been one purty ten shot group!!! - those two 9's got me into third place ..................coulda shoulda woulda huh .....look at tha flag ya idiot!!!! .....