Is a plain base .30 cal boolit useful?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

What ever you do, DO NOT type "30-06 plain base" into the google custom search, or you will be reading for days.

or just don't click on this link.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/goog...398j1066950j16

[brewer12345]

Yes, I already figured out that boolits that are too hard and too small are a problem and have been gravitating toward fatter and softer. My thought is that the gas checked would make good hunting fodder for deer and pigs, while the plain based would do for plinking and maybe even.small game and varmints.

[Outpost75]

Flat-nosed .30 cal. bullet with meplat 0.6-0.7 of bullet diameter, BHN 8-10, at 1300-1400 fps will kill deer nicely at woods ranges

[brewer12345]

Flat-nosed .30 cal. bullet with meplat 0.6-0.7 of bullet diameter, BHN 8-10, at 1300-1400 fps will kill deer nicely at woods ranges

So will lots of things I already have, like 44 mag, 35 rem and even 357 out of a rifle. Problem is that a lot of my deer opportunities are foothills mule deer at over 100.yards. that is why I lean toward gas checked stuff for hunting. If I end up hunting east or the Mississippi, I would plan on the 35 or almost any load out of the 30 06.

[Motor]

When people start winning ASRRA and CBA registered benchrest and military matches and setting score and group records with PC I might try it...

I'm sure this has merit but this is about a hunting bullet not a match bullet. You certainly don't need match winning accuracy to kill a deer. I'll take 2000fps+ with great deer hunting accuracy over 1600fps or less any day.

Motor

[Outpost75]

I'm sure this has merit but this is about a hunting bullet not a match bullet. You certainly don't need match winning accuracy to kill a deer. I'll take 2000fps+ with great deer hunting accuracy over 1600fps or less any day.

Motor

What do you consider "deer hunting" accuracy?

What can you rely upon, on demand anytime, for a five-shot group at 200 yards?

[HangFireW8]

You are correct. Many new cast bullet shooters follow the commonly repeated mis-information about sizing bullets to the groove diameter of the barrel, which is INCORRECT

Outpost75, I agree with most everything you post, but your INCORRECT here is, well, incorrect.

Some of us have been sizing to bore size and getting very good results. Some of us includes CE Harris and Col. E.H. Harrisson (ret.). You can read the Col's book if you need reasons why. Basically it gets down to starting the boolit in a consistent and concentric fashion. Throat sizing is not the only way to do that. Sometimes it's not even the easiest way to do that. Sometimes the chamber neck size doesn't even allow a reloader to do that (safely).

One 50Y target doesn't prove an argument, but 10 shots may mean something to you.... This oddball rifle, a military Moroccan 30/06 FN Mauser, has a .310" bore, a long throat and a normal sized chamber neck. Boolits are sized to .310". If I sized to throat, it wouldn't chamber.


One of these days I'll dig up (or maybe it will be easier to reshoot) some 444 cast load 50Y targets that also look like that, and 100Y targets that hold the same MOA. Trying to size to THAT throat would really be a hoot.

[Motor]

Outpost75. A 4" group at 200 yards is all that's needed for a deer rifle. Many deer hunting rifles currently being used with J-words are only capable of this. What's your point?

Most deer are taken at less than 100 yards but a 30 caliber shooting a 170gr+ cast bullet at 2200fps vs 1600fps or less would be capable of 0 to 200 yard kills with the proper sight in. I believe 2200fps is a conservative number.

Power coating is just one option what about the time proven paper patching?

Motor

[Doughty]

Outpost75,

This wouldn't win everyday, but on this particular day, it did.



You oughta give it a try.

[Outpost75]

Outpost75,

This wouldn't win everyday, but on this particular day, it did.



You oughta give it a try.

I'm impressed. Pls. describe the rifle. Is this the best group you ever shot, or can you shoot five in a row like that?

[Outpost75]

Outpost75. A 4" group at 200 yards is all that's needed for a deer rifle. Many deer hunting rifles currently being used with J-words are only capable of this. What's your point?

Most deer are taken at less than 100 yards but a 30 caliber shooting a 170gr+ cast bullet at 2200fps vs 1600fps or less would be capable of 0 to 200 yard kills with the proper sight in. I believe 2200fps is a conservative number.

Power coating is just one option what about the time proven paper patching?

Motor

I can agree with that.

When I tried it I had trouble maintaining bullet size and fit, accuracy was inferior to what I could get with simple Lee Liquid Alox or 45-45-10 and I gave up infrustration. I have a simple lube system that works for me, PC seems like too much work... For those who prefer it, more power to them.

[Doughty]

Outpost75,

The rifle is a stock Ruger No. 1, except it has a heavy Hart barrel, custom stocks, Moyer competition hammer and springs, Kepplinger set trigger, and Weaver 36X scope. The barrel was originally chambered for .30-30 Win on another action. When I switched the barrel to the current action, I had to set the barrel back one thread. This made for a short chamber, so I made dies and cases that are about .060 shorter than the standard .30-30. Naturally I call it a .30-30 Short.

It is not the best group that I have shot with PCed bullets, just the best group that I have a picture of. Over a 5 year average I shot a 244 score, with conventional lubed and PCed bullets. One of my problems is that I like to tinker too much. The bullet used in the photo was swaged (I mean "bumped") very much from it's original shape and was breech seated. I am no longer using that bullet, but one that casts much closer to its final, before "bumping" shape. I am also currently on a BLL kick, which is faster to apply than PC.

I "BELIEVE" that PC can be made to shoot as well as conventionally lubed bullets. My biggest problem is not the gun or bullets, it's that I can't dope the wind very well. Where I think PC really "shines" is in semi-auto firearms and somewhat in hunting ammo.

Give it a try.

[lwknight]

There is nothing wrong or bad about plain base for rifles except that you have to compromise between velocity and terminal performance.
You can use a big heavy low velocity bullet to knock an elephant down but realistically a 30-06 is not the tool of choice for that task.

The problem is that we need good terminal performance for hunting and the only way to get there is with fairly soft but tough bullets. Soft bullets will skid the rifling if we push the velocity too much. That is where the gas check comes into play. The gas check is not bonded to the bullet and is hard enough to resist skidding so that even if the lead part does skid the check will still block gas bypassing the rifling.

For target shooting , terminal performance is not a concern so the bullet can be cast hard enough to resist skid even at some impressive velocities. No gas check required.

I would use a gas check mold and simply leave the check off for lower velocity loads. A 220 grain 30 cal soft cast bullet with 4-5% tin at 1600fps will have plenty of kill em power for medium game. You just don't have a very flat trajectory for the long shots.

[Motor]

A gas check won't stop a soft bullet from skidding. This was proven many years ago. A gas check is just as the name implies, a gas seal to prevent blow by.

A flat or round nose bullet will produce a sufficient wound channel and if impact velocity is high teens to low 2k there will also be some hydrostatic shock as well.

I'm shooting 12BHN alloy powder coated at 32k psi from a .500 S&W without gas checks. I'm using the same alloy in 45-70 and well just about everything else I load.

I'd have to think a 12BHN alloy would in fact mushroom some at velocity over 1600 in 30 caliber.

It looks like I need to get a dedicated cast bullet rifle in 30 caliber so I can silence the doubters.

Motor

[lwknight]

A gas check won't stop a soft bullet from skidding. This was proven many years ago. A gas check is just as the name implies, a gas seal to prevent blow by.

That is what I said " The gas check is not bonded to the bullet and is hard enough to resist skidding so that even if the lead part does skid the check will still block gas bypassing the rifling."

[texasnative46]

brewer12345,

Given that the vast majority of WT are taken at 100M (and often at much less), a .30 caliber PBCB, loaded to approximate the old .32-40WCF, makes a great deal of sense for "brush country hunting" for WT & medium game.
(I long ago quit trying to guess how many TX coyotes, jackrabbits, etc. that have fallen to my Model 760 in .300SAV.)

Fwiw, my 1st cousin took a WT doe this year at <20 long steps from his stand.

ADDENDA: A friend of mine from Kerrville recently took an Axis doe at <10M. = Sam said that she nearly walked INTO his ground stand. - He took her with a S&W .38SPL handgun.
He converted her into enough "invasive species" chili to feed our whole State natural center crew (I didn't count our folks but it was a CROWD.) all the Texas Red chili that we could eat.
(I'll admit to 4 "good-sized" bowls between Noon & 2100. = GREAT stuff!!)

just my opinion, tex

[brewer12345]

brewer12345,

Given that the vast majority of WT are taken at 100M (and often at much less), a .30 caliber PBCB, loaded to approximate the old .32-40WCF, makes a great deal of sense for "brush country hunting" for WT & medium game.
(I long ago quit trying to guess how many TX coyotes, jackrabbits, etc. that have fallen to my Model 760 in .300SAV.)

Fwiw, my 1st cousin took a WT doe this year at <20 long steps from his stand.

ADDENDA: A friend of mine from Kerrville recently took an Axis doe at <10M. = Sam said that she nearly walked INTO his ground stand. - He took her with a S&W .38SPL handgun.

just my opinion, tex

Understood. White tails I typically have nearly step on me, or so it seems (always while I am hunting something else, of course). A lot of my deer opportunities will be mulies, though. Bigger, heavier, and usually at a longer distance. I got skunked on my last mulie hunt, but the only shot I might have gotten (before the fog rolled in and I could not see anything) was a solid 125 yards out.

[rking22]

I have never had good accuracy from gc designs without checks, could be just me. I like having a PB design just for plinking and general loads. Then a heavy flatpoint with check for hunting loads. Shoot, nobody has just one 30 caliber mold, think there is some such requirement arround that

[texasnative46]

rking22,

YEP, I believe that that's a rule somewhere here.

yours, tex

[quilbilly]

I have recently been trying out a new (to me) 30 cal. Lyman custom mold which has one cavity for a 200 gr plain base Loverin style semi-point. So far my Mossberg Patrol (scout style) 308 has shot that big boolit very well keeping all shots in my hand-cut half-size coyote target at 75 yards shooting offhand with a 3x scope. The load is 7.3 gr of Bullseye giving the boolit an MV of 1200 FPS. Makes me wonder what a 200 gr semi-point won't do at a velocity over 1000 fps at 150 yards. A CB that shape will penetrate like crazy. Whatever it is used for, there is almost no felt recoil and it is almost as if the rifle has a suppressor with full house loads. BTW - Not a hint of leading and the boolits are sized to 309.