Is a plain base .30 cal boolit useful?

[brewer12345]

I will be buying a mold for a 30-06 boolit for deer soon and I think I have settled on the arsenal version of the ranch dog with tumble lube grooves: http://arsenalmolds.com/products?product_id=107

As I was poking around their site, I noticed this mold could be ordered gas checked, plain base, or 50/50. Given the pressures involved with a 30-06 hunting load I would think gas checks would be a necessity. What would a plain base boolit be useful for? Messing around with checks costs money and is a pain, so if there is a use for a plain base in this application, I am all ears.

[William Yanda]

If one wished to load for less than factory velocity, 1600 fps or so, a plain base would make a lot of sense.

[Outpost75]

A plainbased bullet works fine up to .32-40 equivalent velocities.
Good accuracy to 200 yards. Save your barrel and your money.

[brewer12345]

A plainbased bullet works fine up to .32-40 equivalent velocities.
Good accuracy to 200 yards. Save tour barrel and your money.

A cartridge I am unfamiliar with. What is the velocity range? 1600? I have the Lee soup can mold and have made some boolits, but have not had a chance to fool with it. It is a gas check design, so the additional 3 cents a boolit and hassles of fitting the danged things on are not a plus.

[popper]

Lower velocity, 15-1600 fps works with PB. Saves powder too, little bit of unique/2400. It is good for hunting but velocity just limits to shorter range and size of animal. I prefer the standard groove moulds over the TL.

[fcvan]

I bought an NOE 150-SP-3R GC mold originally for use with 300 BO. That cartridge generally goes 2000fps. I make my own gas checks with dies.

I started loading this boolit on .308 and 30-06, and am running 2250fps with 1.5/2.0 MOA at 100yds. These boolits are powder coated 50/50 WW/ soft lead, BTW. I have read recently read where a member here has been getting good results at 2700fps with a slightly harder alloy, more like all WW, also powder coated.

As for plain based, I bought a NOE 62-RN PB mold and have been getting 2350fps from a NEF 24"HB .223, and 2250 from an AR 15, also using 50/50 alloy. The AR 15 seems to like a harder alloy as it is a 1 in 10" twist, the NEF is 1 in 12" twist. I saw an RCBS mold, PB 180gr spitzer and almost picked it up. My .308W rifles are all 1 in 10" and doing well with gas checks. I would like to try PB and may just buy a 190gr GC mold, but cut the gas check portion off a few to try PB boolits to see if they fly. Who knows, a wise man said, 'it's all a guess until you pull the trigger.'

[Outpost75]

A cartridge I am unfamiliar with. What is the velocity range? 1600? I have the Lee soup can mold and have made some boolits, but have not had a chance to fool with it. It is a gas check design, so the additional 3 cents a boolit and hassles of fitting the danged things on are not a plus.

While people report good results with plainbased bullets to 1600 fps, the ASSRA and CBA guys who shoot them in benchrest matches keep velocities under 1400 fps for best results.

In the .30-'06 for Appleseed classes in the 03A3 Springfield we use 6 grains of Bullseye at 100 yards with the military iron sights set at 600 yards and accuracy is better than Ball M2 ammo. NO FILLER is needed, very cheap to shoot. You can go up to 8-8.5 grains of Bullseye in a smooth target grade barrel for about 1300 fps which will keep the bullet supersonic to 200 yards. Also very good is 8.5 grains of WST, 10 grains of AutoComp, Unique or Herco. For most rifles size to .311", worn barrels which have been shot alot will need .312-.313". Keep alloy soft 8-10 BHN. 50-50 wheelweights and pure lead with 1% tin added works well, with Lee Liquid Alox lube.

Don't over-lube the bullets, you want them to look like this:

Attachment 212275

Can't speak for the "soupcan" bullet. In ten-inch twist .30-'06 rifles we've had best accuracy with bullets from 150-205 grains, using bullets with a large enough bore-riding forepart that they are lightly engraved upon chambering and "fit" the throat. We prefer bullets having a TAPERED nose which fits the throat. But if a bullet with parallel-sided nose is large enough in diameter to be engraved somewhat on chambering, it will work. NOE clone of #311299 or #314299 works well at subsonic velocities in 10-inch twist with these charges. Examples of the bullets we shoot. The GC designs which "fit" can also be used at low velocity without the GC.

Attachment 212269Attachment 212270Attachment 212271Attachment 212272Attachment 212273Attachment 212274

Some typical groups fired with '03 Springfields:

Attachment 212266Attachment 212267Attachment 212268

[claude]

Just a personal opinion, ones level of experience with cast would make a difference in how this question is answered.
I, do better with checked bullets, they seem to be more forgiving. There are those here and on other boards that shoot almost exclusively PB bullets with great success.
Perhaps a lame answer but, that's my 2 cents worth.

[Outpost75]

Just a personal opinion, ones level of experience with cast would make a difference in how this question is answered. I, do better with checked bullets, they seem to be more forgiving. There are those here and on other boards that shoot almost exclusively PB bullets with great success. Perhaps a lame answer but, that's my 2 cents worth.

You are correct. Many new cast bullet shooters follow the commonly repeated mis-information about sizing bullets to the groove diameter of the barrel, which is INCORRECT, versus making the bullet fit the throat and origin of rifling. They also often use alloys which are too hard and which are unable to upset and seal the throat and bore, thus causing leading. They also use lubricants which are too hard and unable to flow to coat the bore, and provide the necessary boundary layer lubrication which is necessary to prevent leading and to form a steady-state ablative coating which maintains a consistent bore condition.

When the novice shooter follows the bad advice given in older loading manuals, of which Lyman is the chief offender, then the gaschecked bullet IS more forgiving, and more successful in the marketing endeavor by forcing the novice shooter to spend even more money on a bullet lubricator-sizer machine and to forever be addicted to expensive gaschecks to make his defective bullets work which don't fit.

Soft 8-10 BHN bullets will shoot accurately without leading to full-charge black powder velocities and will kill game. These 172-grain cup-point bullets cast 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals and loaded with 18 grs. IMR4895 in .30-30, shot into water jugs at 50 yards. They will shoot through deer broadside and Bambi is DRT. Ballistics approximate the .32-40 Winchester.

Attachment 212298

[Grmps]

Outpost75 Attachment 212278 -- Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

Most of Lymans alloy recommendation is Lyman #2 90-5-5 Brinell 15

new caster (all casters) need to slug all their barrels and cast 1 to 3 thou over the barrel bottom of the groove diameter
Choose the alloy hardness according to the desired application/velocity to get optimum obturation.
Softer alloys will obturate (expand to fill the grooves at lower pressure/velocity than harder alloys) in short you use to har an alloy on to light a load you will get blow by and leadding

Factory J-word cartridges are predominately made 1 size fits all

My 2¢ worth

[Hickory]

I will be buying a mold for a 30-06 boolit for deer soon.

Another thing to keep in mind when using plainbase boolits for hunting. If you want or need more power from your cast boolits it may behoove you to go to a heavier boolit, say 200-225 grs. With the natural restriction of 1600 fps this is a worthwhile option.

[Hickory]

[Double post]

[Outpost75]

Reduced file size and reposted. Shows up know on my PC, how about yours?

[Motor]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot a plain base bullet at 2000fps or even more using powder coating. There are many people who do this already.

Motor

[texassako]

My favorite paper punching and small game rifle loads use plain base, unsized, and tumble lubed bullets. You have to be willing to keep the speeds down, but it is so easy once you have the load worked up.

[Loudy13]

FB works great for subsonic loads

[rking22]

Shows up on my phone.

[bluejay75]

I shoot the Ranchdog NOE version of this mold at 181 grains in .308 plain base. This is my most accurate cast load that I have right now. Will put 10 shots into 2 inches at 100 yards with 18.5 grains of AA9. Seated a couple thousandths deeper than the crimp groove to ensure it chambers in all of my guns.

[Outpost75]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't shoot a plain base bullet at 2000fps or even more using powder coating. There are many people who do this already. Motor

When people start winning ASRRA and CBA registered benchrest and military matches and setting score and group records with PC I might try it...

[Jack Stanley]

I've used bullets with the gas check heel without checks for years . But all that Outpost is saying about fit , hardness and lube need to be heeded . This is not hard to do at all so pick the style you want to use and work with it .

Jack