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Thread: Possible double charge??

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Possible double charge??

    I've been handloading for about 9 years now & casting boolits for about 8 years. Never an issue, til now. Shooting my New Vaquero 45 Colt a few days ago using 7.0 grains of Titegroup under the NOE 285-WFN. After 44 successful rounds, number 45 had considerable more blast, so I stopped to check things. I could not eject the brass. The gun looked fine. I don't recall any excessive recoil, just a louder report. According to Brian Pearce, 7.5 grains of the same powder is maximum at 14,000 psi under the RCBS 270-SAA boolit, which actually weighs 285 grains also with wheel weight alloy. With all that said, I was wondering if someone with the Quickload software could give me an estimation of what the pressure might be for a double charge of my 7 grain load? Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Too much!!!!
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    A double charge of 14 grains should have damaged your gun.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    A double charge of 14 grains should have damaged your gun.
    I've seen Ruger's digest some insane loads without blowing up...
    While cylinder and topstrap may have held, I would expect a bulged chamber...

    Did that to an original 1884 Trapdoor firing double-charge of 22 grs. of 700X and 370-grain bullet. No apparent external damage, but required a piece of 3/8" drill rod and 3 pound dead blow hammer to get case out and rifle from then on was a wall hanger. Actually sold it for more than I p[aid for it, even with non-firing red tag warning of bulged chamber. It now decorates a cowboy themed bar above the mirror.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    That is why I visual check all cases. Made a few gauges out of dowel rods with a line for deeper bottle neck cases. After blowing up my 6.5 Grendel I take extra precautions. I only have 2 eyes, 10 fingers, and one life living on a tight budget. Now I have an overly expensive paper weight to remind me not be stupid and be more attentive.
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    A double charge of 14 grains should have damaged your gun.
    That's kinda what I was thinking. In Pearce's article, 10.5 grains was a tier 3 load. 32,000 psi

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I've seen Ruger's digest some insane loads without blowing up...
    While cylinder and topstrap may have held, I would expect a bulged chamber...

    Did that to an original 1884 Trapdoor firing double-charge of 22 grs. of 700X and 370-grain bullet. No apparent external damage, but required a piece of 3/8" drill rod and 3 pound dead blow hammer to get case out and rifle from then on was a wall hanger. Actually sold it for more than I p[aid for it, even with non-firing red tag warning of bulged chamber. It now decorates a cowboy themed bar above the mirror.
    Visually the cylinder looks fine. How could I measure it to check? Plug gauges?

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xrider472 View Post
    Visually the cylinder looks fine. How could I measure it to check? Plug gauges?
    I did measure it with my calipers. That chamber measures the same as the other five. Just not sure calipers are accurate enough?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Double charge?
    65kpsi and an unharmed gun says no!
    But if so then play the lottery cause you are truly lucky

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by 17nut; 01-17-2018 at 08:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17nut View Post
    Double charge?
    65kpsi and an unharmed gun says no!
    But if so then play the lottery cause you are truly lucky

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	45LC 14gr TG .jpg 
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    Thank you, sir. That's what I figured. I knew it was going to be high. Wow.

    Now I'm stumped.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    It may be that a partial charge dropped in one case while the rest of the charge was hung up until the next case got under the powder measure. You might find a light load in there somewhere.
    The over loaded case would not have been a double, just an overcharge.
    However this seldom happens with Titegroup.

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    It may be that a partial charge dropped in one case while the rest of the charge was hung up until the next case got under the powder measure. You might find a light load in there somewhere.
    The over loaded case would not have been a double, just an overcharge.
    However this seldom happens with Titegroup.
    That's the best explanation so far. I agree about Titegroup. It flows so well thru the measure. I've never had any issues with my setup. Dillon 550 with the standard powder measure that comes with it.

  13. #13
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone for the info & responses.

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master
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    If you have a high pressure event with reloaded ammo, the way to bet is that if too much powder could get in the case, too much powder did get into the case. How it did is secondary to vigilance from here on out in preventing too much powder from happening again.

    The extreme compactness and dark color of Titegroup make overcharges very hard to spot even when the case is resting alongside others in a loading block.

    For me, safest way after dumping charge is to immediately seat the bullet. Progressive presses are another whole can of worms and one must work out foolproof procedures that work for you and stick to them.

    I am not perfect myself. One time back in the day when loading otherwise safe high bulk Red Dot in the 45 ACP on a progressive (double charge is really noticeable) I went the other direction and let the powder in the hopper get too low, ejecting a few undercharged cases in a big pile of properly charged ones. I could narrow it down to maybe a few undercharges in fifty possibles, which necessitated going to the range with a brass rod and hammer.

    Fortunately the charge was enough the bullet cleared the barrel but just barely a couple of times. The gun did not cycle. Now the rather small measure hopper is never let below half full.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    A bulged chamber won't be on the ends where you can measure it with dial calipers. It will be further up in the chamber, probably somewhere around where the webbing of the case tapers to parallel. If it is bulged the case from a standard charged load will be difficult to extract.
    Take care,
    Rick

  16. #16
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    This is why tightgroup should not be used in large capacity cases. It is one of the lowest bulk powders made.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    To get brass that won't eject you likely did exceed 60k psi. Rugers are strong -- I'm guessing you did indeed have a double charge. You just have to be double extra careful when using a powder charge that leaves lots of room for a double charge -- I get under a good light and visually inspect the powder level. (I do that with all charges, but I might look twice with something with as much extra room as your Tightgroup load!)

  18. #18
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=35remington;4264072]If you have a high pressure event with reloaded ammo, the way to bet is that if too much powder could get in the case, too much powder did get into the case. How it did is secondary to vigilance from here on out in preventing too much powder from happening again.



    Agreed. This is my favorite caliber and gun to load for. After thousands of rounds loaded and fired, this incident is a little unsettling. Just glad it wasn't worse. I may go back to using Unique for visual volume purposes. Lol

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickinTN View Post
    A bulged chamber won't be on the ends where you can measure it with dial calipers. It will be further up in the chamber, probably somewhere around where the webbing of the case tapers to parallel. If it is bulged the case from a standard charged load will be difficult to extract.
    Take care,
    Rick

    Thanks for the info. I'll give this a try next time I go to the range.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub xrider472's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earlmck View Post
    To get brass that won't eject you likely did exceed 60k psi. Rugers are strong -- I'm guessing you did indeed have a double charge.

    I had to remove the cylinder when I got home and hammer the brass out with a punch. My first and only experience with anything overpressure, I hope....

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check