my set up for 45 acp...my way, and discoveries. LONG WINDED sorry

[mozeppa]

this is a little long winded....my apologies.
(an effort to try to stem off a few questions by being long winded.)

my press is a dillon 650 stripped of the priming station and all that extra stuff that probably works
but ...i just don't like.

so...where the priming station mounts i made a plate that fits there were the priming station was.
had to also make a football shaped piece of 1/8 " steel to fit where the primer carousel was.

all this was to make a smooth ride to station 2 which by Dillons idea is the powder station.
i added a buzzy thingy to the top of the powder which vibrates the powder at the bottom AND the top of each stroke.
i used to get powder throws all over the map with the problem powders.....BUT NOT ANY MORE!

700X
800X
TRAIL BOSS
UNIQUE
POWER PISTOL
SOLO 1000
AND MANY OTHERS NOW ALL METER WITHIN ONE 10TH EITHER HIGH OR LOW.

(i know ....there will be a few who say their powder is like potato chips and their dipper or slide drawer powder
measure works perfectly every throw...zero variances....BULL! . this is what i like remember?

I never like dillons powder measure with the linkage and all ...so i opted for Hornadys case activated.
but it also seem that i don't like the "powder thru expander" which is supposed to put flair on the brass
AND drop powder into the case.

so i bought extra expanders and ground down (or thinned the walls ) of the expander until it fit loosly
inside the brass, ad yet still operated as a case activated powder measure.

stage 3 is my powder "cop"........no "bubba-ing" this ...works like a champ.

stage 4 is my seat die. okay.

stage 5 is my crimp die.....and for .45 acp i do have a slight bevel on the case.
( i know some here only remove the flair and no more. so sue me.)

at this point i have my cases which are clean, de-primed, sized, inspected, i get my flair via a different
progressive press with a lyman "M" die. then they are bench primed.

so when my case feeder starts dropping cases into the press, they are already
to get powder , then check the powder, then recieve a bullet , seat then crimp!
if all is good, i should be ready to rock and roll AND MAKE TASTY BOOLETS (AND J WORDS TOO).

started with 840 winchester cases purported to have been once fired ...and maybe they were.

now then nothing hacks me off worse that standing on the line pistol raised and have a ...

failure to load
failure to fully go into battery.
whatever ...!!!....the slide won't close! aHHHHHHH!

so now i check each and every round i make (no matter the caliber) with a chamber gage!
i know again.... some will say i do the "plunk test with the guns barrel ...not a gage....
(little secret...the gage does more than a barrel will.)

out of the 840 cases.... 92 did not pass the plunk test with a gage. here's why....

winchester in their infinite wisdom has determined that it costs just as much to make a bad cartridge
...as it does to make a good one.
so along with their premium cartridges on the shelf they also have "WHITE BOX" winchester cartridges
for a few dollars less....they are the same!...right?.....i'm not so sure.

what i discovered to be true is that all 92 case exibited the same problem...leading me to conclude that
the cases are seconds in the "white boxes".....not 100% sure of that but more sleuthing is required.

the proble lies in the rims of the brass either being slightly over sized after they are turned.
also when turned, something else is slightly off as well, resultin in the rim being 2 or 3 thousandths off center.

heres the case gage secret....with the case cleaned and sized it should drop all the way into the gage.
these cases hang up right at the rim...and you can see the rim sitting on the gage face.

no?

more proof?

remove the case and try to stick it in backwards, if the case is good, then about 90% of the case will drop right in. CORRECTION...my new starline brass goes in after loading 100% backwards or forwards.
if the case has an off center rim it might go into the gage about 30% then hang up tight.
(it takes good eyes and magnifying jewlers glasses to see where its off but is do-able.)
i take a emory board for finger nails and cut the off center rim back to square.

i know ...too labor intensive ....but i did it. (and i won't be repeating this in the future...now i'll be adding the "check the sized brass in the gage" step.
this will be to avoid trying to salvage made ammo that won't pass the plunk test in the future.

i'll back up my claim with another little tidbit.

my next run of brass in the same machine, same j-words, same seat , crimp......every thing the same...EXCEPT THE brass!

630 brass by the "C-B-C" company...also from the same range. also purported to be "once fired"

after assembling all 630 cartridges .....NOT ONE WAS BAD ...or off center...needed to be filed on.
nada, none!

i use to believe that winchester was the best you could do....i'm sad to report that i was wrong.

[OldBearHair]

Like the way you approach problems and fix them. Good little tricks GEDRN _______ Get er done right now

[DocSavage]

I've brass from Remington,Winchester,Federal,Blazer,Starline,TZZ (IMI) and PMC and never had a problem with cases chamberring in my various 1911s,M&P and 625. The only thing I keep an eye on is Blazer brass is spp,I think I've Federal that uses app as well.

[Bzcraig]

Thanks for the post. I use a Hornady progressive so don't quite understand your priming hack but like you I prime off press. For pistol #1 is expand using NOE expanders, #2 powder, #3 lockout die, #4 seat, #5 crimp and I use a light crimp, more than just removing the bell. I don't use a case feeder but brass prep is done beforehand too. Awhile back someone posted a link to an article explaining how 45acp brass changes with each firing. Basically, the brass stretches at the extractor recess and he showed pictures to prove it. I'm curious if your off center brass had maybe grown longer on one side as it stretched?

I've never used a case gauge, will they work with cast? I don't shoot jacketed.

Please explain more about your powder vibrator.

[wv109323]

Do you know how old the Win. brass is? I suspect that all manufacturers quality went to pot when demand for their product was high. Did you test any of the faulty ammo for accuracy? I could see 2-3 thousands in neck thickness causes accuracy.

[OS OK]

Yeah, been down this road too. It wasn't until I had cataract surgery that I discovered the non concentric rim as you did. It hacked me off because I found so many of them. Never determined what the cause was as I buy brass off this forum and there's no way to determine the once fired or where they come from thing. I had suspicions that it was done in one of the new 'Gluck's' or something along that line but really had no idea...just had to figure a fix & salvage the brass. OCD strikes again!
If they don't pass the case gauge test then there's a problem...to heck with the plunk test.
I made a wooden dowel that fit one of the battery drills and on the end of the dowel, it is sanded down just enough to fit a case on, squeeze fit.
I run that over a 600 grit diamond stone to carefully trim only the rim by a few thousandths then recheck in the case gauge. Most all the off center cases will go back in the line up this way...those that don't are out, out like in the trash.

I like the way you approach using the progressive press...your way! This thread is gonna cause some hemorrhoid inflammation for some because of your adaptation of 'your procedure'...especially, 'not priming' on the press! OMG...you've gone and done it now!

c h a r l i e

[JimB..]

Please more info on the powder vibrator.

About rims being a bit out of round or off center, why fix them? Sure they interfere with the case gauge test, but what functional problem does this cause in the gun?

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

I would not waste time on the brass. They are maybe a nickel worth of cost each, and your time dealing with them....has to be worth more.

ID the bad ones, and throw them into the brass recycle bucket.

[6bg6ga]

I must be special. I have absolutely no problems with my 650. I use the priming station, I use a non-standard belling/powder pass thru funnel, I use a bullet dropper, seating die, and a taper crimp die. No problems ever with feeding and no problems loading with unique, or 231. I generally use 231 because it is the most accurate 45acp load for me.

I use the Mr. Bulletfeeder power funnel pass thru instead of the factory supplied one. My brass is all range pickups or brass purchased from a local range which is all mixed.

[mozeppa]

for bzcraig
the case gage works with cast or jacketed.
see the picture for my powder vibrator.

for wv109323
no idea on the age of the brass ...but i suspect that it was factory new in 2016 to 2017.

osok
yeah ...i probably irk the daylights outta purests that never deviate from the manual.
dillon did a good job on the 650,...up to a point .
for instance ...everything works that they designed up til they got to ejecting the finished round .
i know and suspect you do to that whoever designed that cheesy wire wrapped around the center bolt only did it that way to get the press into production.
i've deprimed and sized about 100k of 9mm brass and as many .380 brass ...wish i had one cent for every brass that hung on that cheesy wire!
(working on a add on ejector system that doesn't rely on the wire to rub the finished round out of the shell plate...it goes and gets it!)

hi jimB
picture below of the vibrator...made myself with the same vibrator they use in neck pillows and foot massagers.
with a twist ...mine runs on a plug in D-C transformer at 9v DC from house current 120v AC
has 2 switches ...one on top and one mounted on the case feeder post down by the shell plate platform.
for pistol powders that are hard to meter it works like a charm, within one tenth either way.
BUT for easy metering powders like H110...#2... #5... sr7625...and other really fine powders the vibrator RARELY
EVER throws a charge that is not dead on.

in some 1911 barrels if the off center rim is not caught with the case gage ....it won't allow the slide to fully close either.

bubba w a 45/70
in my 1st original posting of this thread..... "i know ...too labor intensive ....but i did it. (and i won't be repeating this in the future...now i'll be adding the "check the sized brass in the gage" step.
this will be to avoid trying to salvage made ammo that won't pass the plunk test in the future."

so to answer you ...i'll i.d. the brass before i load it.

6bg6ga

GOD bless you! ...you are truly blessed.

[Reddirt62]

I dislike Winchester brass as well. Get a lot of once fired from the police range (friends with the head guy) their 556 practice rounds are Winchester. They have very weak primer pockets, it is like they are loose and the only thing that holds the primer is the crimp. Anyway yeah, I check all brass in a case gauge before I load it. Pulling over 100 556 leaves an indelible mark in ones memory!
Thanks for the post!


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[shell70634]

Thanx Mozeppa. I am now on the hunt for a vibrator to dismantle.

Shelly

[Grmps]

mozeppa, thanks for the great write up

powder measure vibrator video-
lee loadmaster primer and powder feed cure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ekMb3C0Wg

I did this and it does help