.45 ACP and Unique powder

[onelight]

Not to hijack the thread but I just bought a box of the Hornady swaged 200gr SWC and I’d like to load up a few dozen for hiking, camping, woods scenarios where I might surprise a mountain lion. Alliants online data for Unique shows 5.4gr. I have other older manuals that show 7.1-7.3 grains as a maximum for 200gr bullets. And the Cooper load is 7.5 which I would consider way too hot.

I just want to know if 7.0 grains would be considered safe, in a modern 1911 with a shock buffer. I have absolutely no plans of shooting this load much at all, only to carry in the woods.

Anecdotally, I have only loaded the Lee 230gr TC in .45acp and I like it very much with 6.0 grains of Unique or 5.0gr of Bullseye. But I’m way too constrained on time with a young family to get any casting in these days...

My experience with Hornady and Speer lead bullets is they lead my barrel at much more than starting loads they shoot good but not fast.
I believe that is why the data from Hornady appears low for that bullet
For me I can load commercial Hi-Tek bullets faster with less chance of leading.

[AviatorTroy]

Leading is definitely a concern, these bullets seem very soft and I’m not too sure about the lube. On the other hand I have shot many of the Hornady swaged HBWC and SWC in .38 special with no problems.

[Gray Fox]

Coating with Lee liquid lube in the normal manner helps some with leading, especially the Hornady ones with whatever their dry lube is. GF

[trails4u]

7.9 Unique under a 185 XTP loaded to 1.220” in mixed cases got 1111, 1090, 1171, 1146 and 1139 in the 1911. In a 4.2 inch Ruger P97 they went 1045, 1071, 1040 and 1088.

I've run the same bullet, powder and COAL at 6.7gn Unique and average 950fps. Mine in an R1. I stopped there....accurate and manageable.

[Larry Gibson]

"And the Cooper load is 7.5 which I would consider way too hot."

"Too hot"....not at all. SAAMI MAP for the 45 ACP is 21,000 psi and for +P 23,000 psi.

Pressure testing in a 10" Contender barrel with an Oehler M43 PBL produced the following psi's;

For "refererence"

WCC80 Ball; 918 fps at 16,500 psi
Winchester 230 FMJ; 947 fps at 15,500 psi
Speer 200 gr JHP (FAT); 1044 fps at 15,300 psi

+P
Corbon 230 JHP; 1039 fps at 21,300 psi
Hornady CD 220 tipped; 1079 fps at 22,000 psi

Reloads

Lee 230 TC, 5 gr Bullseye; 980 fps at 16,700 psi
Lee 200 SWC, 5 gr 700X; 1010 fps at 14,100 psi
Lee 200 gr SWC (copy of H&G 68), 7.5 gr Unique (Cooper load); 1155 fps at 18,800 psi.
Hornady 20 gr XTP, 7.5 gr Unique; 1149 fps at 18,700 psi.

All the above loads give normal velocities, as expected, in a Colt M1911 Series 70 with 5" barrel. Those range from 830 to 1015 fps.

[RJM52]

..greats and informative posts as usual Larry...

Bob

[fivegunner]

Thank you for posting that Larry.

[onelight]

Coating with Lee liquid lube in the normal manner helps some with leading, especially the Hornady ones with whatever their dry lube is. GF

I have found that to be also , it just adds another step to the process .

[AviatorTroy]

Excellent, thank you.

[mvintx]

"And the Cooper load is 7.5 which I would consider way too hot."

"Too hot"....not at all. SAAMI MAP for the 45 ACP is 21,000 psi and for +P 23,000 psi.

Pressure testing in a 10" Contender barrel with an Oehler M43 PBL produced the following psi's;

For "refererence"

WCC80 Ball; 918 fps at 16,500 psi
Winchester 230 FMJ; 947 fps at 15,500 psi
Speer 200 gr JHP (FAT); 1044 fps at 15,300 psi

+P
Corbon 230 JHP; 1039 fps at 21,300 psi
Hornady CD 220 tipped; 1079 fps at 22,000 psi

Reloads

Lee 230 TC, 5 gr Bullseye; 980 fps at 16,700 psi
Lee 200 SWC, 5 gr 700X; 1010 fps at 14,100 psi
Lee 200 gr SWC (copy of H&G 68), 7.5 gr Unique (Cooper load); 1155 fps at 18,800 psi.
Hornady 20 gr XTP, 7.5 gr Unique; 1149 fps at 18,700 psi.

All the above loads give normal velocities, as expected, in a Colt M1911 Series 70 with 5" barrel. Those range from 830 to 1015 fps.

So Larry, would your Lee 230 TC at 980 fps and 16,700 psi be safe to shoot in my series 80 Gold Cup with a 16 pound recoil spring? Your data for WCC80 ball is near the same pressure range. I have read that shooting 230 grain ball ammo should be avoided in Gold Cup pistols.

[Larry Gibson]

So Larry, would your Lee 230 TC at 980 fps and 16,700 psi be safe to shoot in my series 80 Gold Cup with a 16 pound recoil spring? Your data for WCC80 ball is near the same pressure range. I have read that shooting 230 grain ball ammo should be avoided in Gold Cup pistols.

The 980 fps velocity is out of the test 10" Contender barrel which is twice as long as a standard 5" barrel in your Series 80 Gold Cup. The 16 lb spring was standard weight for use in M1911s from the beginning in 1911. Firing the Lee 230 TC over 5 gr Bullseye at 16,700 psi [average during that test] would be no different from a safety standpoint than shooting the WCC80 Ball or any other US military 230 gr ball made for use in M1911s. Your Series 80 Gold Cup was actually made within specs to shoot US military hard ball ammunition.

Out of my Colt Series 70 M1911 with the factory 5" barrel that load runs right at 850 fps. With a 5.5" match barrel with a very tight match chamber that load runs 910 +/- fps. I use a 16 lb spring without any problems even after many thousands of rounds of that and similar loads.

Attachment 274116

[mvintx]

Thank you very much for the information Larry.

[Sailormilan2]

From the old(VERY OLD) Lyman 45th Reloading manual

Max loads for Unique powder.
185 gr Lyman 452389 7.2 gr 1081 fps
200 gr Lyman 452460 7.2 gr 1041 fps
225 gr Lyman 452374 7.2 gr 967 fps

230 gr FMJ 7.2 gr 960 fps

Factory Duplication load
230 gr FMJ 6.5 gr 877 fps

[ddixie884]

Actually it was 7.5 gr Unique with the 200 gr SWC. Both the H&G cast of WQ'd #2 alloy and the Hornady 200 gr XTP loaded over 7.5 gr Unique produce psi (I measured it) about half way between the SAAMI MAP for standard 45 ACP loads and +P loads.

Cooper also used 7.2gr under a 215gr swc version of the #68. When I was shooting IPSC I used 7gr under a 230 and a 200gr Saeco clone of the #68. I always made major............

[muskeg13]

If you have a hankering to go up to a 250 grain load, I've had good luck using between 4.5 and 5.5 grains of Unique in both a Charter Arms .45 ACP Pitbull and several M1911s. Using old Lyman Ideal data for .455 Webley and .45 Auto Rim, I could go up another grain, but see no reason to. Achieving low to mid-700s in the small 2.5" revolver and up to 790 or so in the M1911s is enough for me.

[Stephen Cohen]

Lyman 44 lists 7.2 gr Unique with 200gr cast as max, I would say a 7gr load could be classed at a +P load and would be safe for the use you plan. Regards Stephen

[badguybuster]

Ive been using 6.2 grains of Unique under some 255 grain lswc i purchased off gunbroker. They are around 14 on the brinell and work great for woods.carry/handgun hunting.

[AviatorTroy]

Well I tried 7.0 grains of Unique and 6.0 grains of Universal and I got slightly better accuracy from the Universal load. Good enough to consistently hit an 8” gong with my 1911 at 100 yards off a rest.

[trebleplink]

I used 5.6gn of 231 for years with 200 gn swc. And Unique is slower than that - I seem to recall 6. something for it.