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Thread: my apologies to larry gibson and to everybody else

  1. #1

    my apologies to larry gibson and to everybody else

    i'm sorry. i know better now. so i apologize to larry gibson and everybody else.

    i've never done a filler load, i thought that its not needed. so i read http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-vs-Alliant-B and http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-amp-a-Dacron- and i decided to try dacron batting. so i loaded up some cases that were dacron filled and some that were not dacron filled. i was using my tc encore with a 24" barrel in 444 marlin. i used 280gr wfn gc with 25.5gr of 2400.

    on the loads that were not dacron filled, the first load was backed against the primer, the second load was against the boolit and rest were what not. i was shooting at a bench and it was 100 yards. my group was 3 1/2", the first and the second shots did my group. the three others were 1 1/4".

    on the loads that were dacron filled, they go approximately 1/2 - 5/8". i was stunned at the difference between them. i have never thought that dacron batting could do so much. i have also thought that 2400 was not position sensitive. boy i was wrong, again!!!

    so i am bloodied and bruised and i know that dacron batting and 2400 are the thing to go to!!! so i again apologize to larry gibson and everybody else. i am so sorry.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    500Linebaughbuck

    No apology needed here, it's always my pleasure to help a fellow cast bullet shooter. Good shooting btw......
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    I use dacron filler when I have a lot of air space in a cartridge
    namely the 358 win and my sons 35 Whelen
    oh yeah and my 30-30
    Last edited by white eagle; 01-15-2018 at 09:01 PM.
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  4. #4
    Boolit Master ammohead's Avatar
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    Should be no reason to apologize for learning a new trick on this forum.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hey fellows, do you think my 30-06 load with a Lee 170 gr boolit over 21 grains of 2400 would benefit from some dacron? If so, how much?

    How about with Ed Harris's 16 grain load?
    To Thomas Jefferson: It's America! We can have our plows AND our guns!

    http://lindsayfarmonsilvercreek.blogspot.com/

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    I suspect that most of the people have learned from Larry's wisdom and experience.
    I know I have.
    Thanks, Larry.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master ammohead's Avatar
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    Farmer, the amount of dacron to use is the amount it takes to fill the void completely without the dacron being compressed. You do not want any air space between the dacron and the base of the bullet or chamber ringing could occur. Air space below the dacron will allow the powder to shift. If you use to much dacron and it becomes compressed, it becomes part of the projectile. You want a lofty fill that fills completely. Also remember that the dacron may raise pressures some, usually not an issue if you are loading on the light side of things. I hope that I have made this clear as mud. Lol Not rocket science but you get better results if it is done right.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvercreek Farmer View Post
    Hey fellows, do you think my 30-06 load with a Lee 170 gr boolit over 21 grains of 2400 would benefit from some dacron? If so, how much?

    How about with Ed Harris's 16 grain load?
    Probably to both questions. If you are shooting from a bench with the rifle in a consistent stable position and are single loading each cartridge in a consistent manner you my not see an improvement in accuracy using a Dacron filler. The reason simply is because you are pre "positioning" the powder in the case. It is when loading from the magazine or manipulating the rifle before shooting as in hunting, plinking, etc. that the powder is not positioned consistently and the Dacron filler is almost a positive improvement. However, even if shooting from a bench with consistent powder position the internal ballistics (ignition, uniform burn, ES and SD of pressure and velocity) may be better with a Dacron filler giving better accuracy. In CBA matches (almost all benchrest) I use a Dacron filler with my 2400, 4227 and RL7 .308W and 30-06 loads. I also use a Dacron filler in my Finn M39 7.62x54R with 4895 for use in the Military Rifle matches.

    For a better understanding of what I recommend post #2 in this thread explains it;

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 01-16-2018 at 02:18 PM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #9
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


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    Pay attention to old guys. Old guys know stuff.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  10. #10
    thank you all!!!!

    now that i have 5 yards of dacron batting(1/2" wide) and i don't know how much of 2400, the skies are the limit.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Pay attention to old guys. Old guys know stuff.
    I have found that is not always the case. lol
    That said, when Larry speaks, I listen.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    After reading Larry describe his process last year I decided to try it with .308 in my Ruger Scout Rifle using 2400 and the Lee 160 grain spitzer for the .762x39. the first group of 5 a 100 yards off of a rest were just about an inch with an unmeasured velocity of about 1,700 fps. Once the weather warms up I need to try that load some more and also see what it will do in a 99 Savage. I also want to use the same process with the Ranch Dog 311165 RNFP in .30-30 and am hoping for similar results. GF

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy


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    Hey, I resemble that remark
    Quote Originally Posted by starmac View Post
    I have found that is not always the case. lol
    That said, when Larry speaks, I listen.
    "The remedy for evil men is not the abrogation of the rights of law abiding citizens. The remedy for evil men is the gallows." Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Yup, there is a valid reason the old phrase (old fool) was coined, and that was even before my time. lol

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy daniel lawecki's Avatar
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    The old birds at the club use cream of wheat. This was done in their 06's with cast bullets.

  16. #16
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel lawecki View Post
    The old birds at the club use cream of wheat. This was done in their 06's with cast bullets.
    I had problems with that, forming a hard caking inside the cases in many instances. I wouldn't consider doing it anymore. Miss seeing it in the case, load the next time, case capacity has changed, pressures go who knows where?
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    While COW is used many, like waksupi and myself have had problems with it, especially in bottle neck cases. Some years back I did a pressure test for some members here of the 45-70, a relatively straight walled case, using COW as a filler. I found that even in a straight walled case such as the 45-70 pressures were greatly increased. I do not recommend the use of COW as a filler, especially with Dacron readily available. The Dacron filler will work better with considerably less pressure increase with a given load. In the mentioned test I also found the accuracy to be quite abit better with the Dacron filler.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy kens's Avatar
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    Cream of wheat is a big no-no.
    I tried it in a m96 Swede, and the pressure left a band around the base like a belted cartridge.
    I honestly believe that cream of wheat, in a bottle neck case, gets compacted at the neck. and I saw pressure go high enough to belt the case.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Larry has it going his work on Leverrevelution in the 30-30 is legendary. my Mssberg tact cool Levergun loves it.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy

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    I load .308 rounds for a niece that weights about 80 pounds. The load is a 150 gr. Hornady RN jacketed bullet over 28 grs. of H4895. Without dacron filler, it is a solid 3-4 inch shooter in a Remington 7600 carbine. WITH dacron it is 1.5" at a hundred yards. She kills more deer than I do. I use dacron in anything faster than 2400.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check