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Thread: Machinning brass tube to reduce case capacity.

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Northwest Ohio
    You can turn the taper with a manual lathe. You need an expanding mandrel dead center and live center. We made the dead center by simply turning a piece or round stock in the chuck or collet to a 60* point. the mandrel sits between the centers with tension to grip the centers ( a small lathe dog can be used to drive but for light turning isn't necessary) and the tailstock is offset to the desired taper. The machine then turns the taper using the carriage and feed. The pain to this is resetting the tail stock back to zero when done.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Houston TX
    Trail Boss loads work well in the 45-70.
    Loaded some where the red powder coated cast bullets are visible as they
    travel to a 200 yard target.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Yep "Hell I was there" I think, seen it mentioned other places too

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Gamsek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    I use this and they work great in my 7x64 (similar to 280). Attachment 212488Attachment 212489

    see ReduzierhŁlsen
    They speak English
    5Ä per case, neck sizing die with long pin is 40Ä

  5. #25
    Front ignition has been known for a long time, and other things being equal, provides greater efficiency and consistency. (It was in another context that Keith said "The hell with efficiency. What we're after is results.") The trouble is that primer burn is almost inconceivably brief, and what we gain that way, we are likely to lose by its meeting the powder slightly later and cooler.

    The need to improve on it is a lot greater in a powder charge one to four feet long, than an inch or two. Increasing the amount of composition (short of so much that you can't use a brass primer cup any more) won't much extend how far the burn goes, among grains which may be very large. In artillery that tube is filled with very easily ignited powder, often black powder long after the black powder age. The tube is usually perforated, suggesting that the benefit was in ignition throughout the charge rather than specifically at the front.

    Front ignition might be useful in preventing the supposed log-jam of grains at the shoulder of a bottlenecked and sharp-shouldered case. But then, it is far from certain that there is such a log-jam. It imposes a lot of trouble decapping if the case is to be reused, and there could easily be a danger of a tube being blown out and remaining as a bore obstruction, especially if something as thin as the web around a conventional flash-hole is tapped for it.
    I once experimented with copper sheet of about .005in. thickness, in the cylinder gap of a revolver. A small pistol primer, with no powder, would dome and rupture the copper, and a magnum rifle primer is far more powerful.

    There might be some point in a .50BMG or .338/.50 military rifle, for anti-materiel use at extreme ranges, or light anti-tank weapons, in which the last fraction of velocity improves armour penetration. We can afford not to reload when we are paying taxes. But in our amateur capacity I think we are better off finding a powder that permit the use of a larger case. Or deciding that our kind of shooting doesn't need the ultimate in results.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Frankfurt Arsenal used to insert a cardboard tube in the case to accept a reduced charge and still be able to seat a 405 grain bullet to the proper depth.
    Listen! Do you hear it. The roar of cannons, the screams of the dying! Ahh! Music to my ears!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    NE Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Frankfurt Arsenal used to insert a cardboard tube in the case to accept a reduced charge and still be able to seat a 405 grain bullet to the proper depth.
    That was the first of three methods used by the Arsenal to reduce the capacity of the casing. The next method employed card wads between the reduced powder charge and the bullet. Both of these methods required additional loading steps but also additional steps manufacturing the case as the head stamp had to include the letter “C” to distinguish these rounds from the rifle (full charge) rounds. The final method required no additional steps as they merely seated the bullet down on the reduced powder charge which created a visual difference between the two loading.

    Knowledge I take to my grave is wasted.

    I prefer to use cartridges born before I was.

    Success doesn't make me happy, being happy is what allows me to be successful.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Central Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by GARD72977 View Post
    I have been thinking of finding some brass tube and machinning it down to fit in a 45/70 case to reduce capacity fot light loads.
    Im thinking of chamfering the inner part of the bottom slightly. Using a arbor press to press them in.
    Any thoughts on doing this?
    Since vegetable wads are around $18/1000 the easiest method is to insert sufficient number of 0.060" wads. Although itís a well know and accepted practice to ensure that black powder cartridges are sufficiently filled with powder to eliminate air gaps between the powder column, wad and bullet base, it's not a safety issue if the gap between the wad & bullet base is relatively small. And itís been proven that leaving an air space when loading with black powder and no wad is a myth. To this day, some black powder shooters that breech seat bullets routinely leave a gap between the over powder wad and bullet base and do not have chamber ringing or high pressure problems. But in most cases the gap is relatively small

    The main reason for stacking wads (made from hard material) with reduced loads is to hold the powder against the primer for a reliable burn & consistent ballistics. When using wad material, what you don't want to use is a highly compressible material like polyester pillow stuffing, which will compress into a solid mass. When the solid mass hits the base of the bullet the pressure goes sky high & can ring the chamber or worse. BTW, theoretically the same can potentially happen if using a short wad stack to hold back a small amount of black powder, resulting in a large void between the wad and the base of the bullet.

    In other words, if using a wad, any air gap between the wad and bullet base should be held to a minimum. If not using a wad the air gap can be as large as desired, but donít expect consistent burns and good accuracy.

    Last edited by texasmac; 01-29-2018 at 10:43 PM.
    NRA Life (Benefactor & President's Council) Member, TSRA Life Member, NSSF member, Author/Publisher of the Browning BPCR book.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check