Dillon 550 vs. 650?

[jmac2112]

Again, I thank everyone for their input! The more info the better!

[LittleLebowski]

Definitely the 650, I’ve owned both, and have two kids. The 650 gives me more time to shoot and more time with my family.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have the XL 650, 550B and 3 Square Deal Dillon presses. I use the SD's for .44 Special, .45 ACP and .45 Colt/454 calibers. They are dedicated and I do not change those calibers. I use my 550 for .41 Magnum and a bunch of rifle calibers.

The above presses do an excellent job and produce enuf rounds for my use in a quick fashion.

The XL 650 is used for 9 MM's, 223's, 30-06's and 7.62x39MM's. With this press I run the dirty cases through a Thumbler Tumbler and SS pins thenI deprime and size off the press, then trim if necessary, then reprime with a Lee bench mounted
priming tool.
In station one of the 650 I have a lyman 'm' die to flare the mouth of the case for insertion of a lead boolit,
station two puts in powder but no primer,
station three is the RCBS powder checking station,
station four is when I place a boolit into the mouth of the case and
station five is the crimping station.

When running 9 MM's I deprime off the press and then run the dirty cases thru the ss pins and then reprime on the bench.

Then with the now clean and reprimed cases I run them thru station one a sizing die without a depriming punch,
powder only at 2 utilizing the belling funnel by Dillon to flare the case mouth,
insert bootlit at 3 and seat,
crimp at 4
and at 5 utilize the FCD for the 9MM rounds only.....I have issues with getting full insertion of rounds into some of my pistols.

I also have a Lee Classic Cast Iron 4 turret press to load 30-30, 30 Carbine, 303 Brit, 7.62x57 MM, 6.5 Sweede, 327 Fed and other misc loadings.

I use a Rockcrusher as my dedicated depriming press and a Lyman Spar T to develop experimental loadings. I have a spare Lee Challenger as a backup press along with a cheapo Frankford Arsenal single stage and Lee Hand press.

All of these presses are mounted onto InLineFabrications plates and are moved around easily (the XL 650 not so much) to two different stations. The 550 and the 650 reside in the gun room mounted on a wooden workbench.

The 550 on the Dillon Strong mount along with the 3 SD's on strong mounts and the XL 650 on a Inlinefab mount.

I also have a wheeled portable garden cabinet designed to roll around the garden. It provides a solid mount for the InLineFab receiver mount and I can mount pretty much everything onto that mount including my Dillon Super Swager and Lee Bench Primer. This is what I use when I want to watch TV (mostly listen) and perform loading chores in the family room.

Since our family consists of only 4 (1 human, 1 canine & 2 felines) I only need my permission to junk up the family room.

As to your situation I would go for the XL 650. It has the extra station, casefeeder and despite the extra cost of the caliber conversions I believe that in the long run it is a better and faster press.

Just remember that I started out with one mold (now over 100) and loaded only for two .38 cal revolvers. Since then I have acquired over 25 other firearms and I pretty much never buy ammo for any of them except the shotguns and the single .22 LR that I have.

You can expect to pay over $1,150 for a fully dressed out XL650 but you can save enuf money over a short period of time to pay for it over the cost of factory made fodder.

Of course you will never see these savings cuz you will be shooting a lot more and becoming a much better shooter plus the fun.

Now if you really want to save money then get into casting yur own boolits...................but that is another story.

[jmac2112]

Thanks, Crash! I have been casting for about nine months now--I quickly realized that that's where the major savings are. There is probably a 650 in my future, as soon as I can scrape together the cash. I like the idea of the cabinet on wheels, too Years ago I built what I then considered to be an enormous workbench. Actually, it IS enormous, but I find more and more things to put on it!

[Bodean98]

I asked this same question a couple of years ago. Either Dillon came with good comments and recommendation. Got nearly the same counsel as you are getting here!
I decided to go with the XL650 and have not regretted it yet. Yes, it's pricey but it just works! As was suggested in an earlier post, if you have enough components just load up several thousand when you have an afternoon or evening available and you'll have plenty of ammo until the next reloading session. Several thousand rounds in an afternoon sounds like a lot (and it is) but is well within the capabilities of the 650. I load for .223, 45 ACP, and 300 BLK on the 650. Change overs are not that difficult and you can be up and running in just a few minutes. I can actually keep more ammo loaded now than I normally shoot! That is a first!!

[Lloyd Smale]

650s were designed with a case feeder in mind and without one there not nearly as handy. A 550 case feeder is an add on and the one I tried blocked the ability to put a case on myself if I didn't want to use the case feeder. Heres my take on it. A 550 is probably the most versatile progressive (or at least semi progressive) press on the market for someone who wants to do volume handgun and rifle ammo but still wants to slow down occasionaly and smell the roses. A square deal is much faster then a 550 and with its short stroke can be ran even feeding it yourself as fast as most guys can load on a 650. Problem is no rifle loading on one. 650s are sweet running presses. With a case feeder (don't bother with on without a case feeder) there fast doing rifle and handgun loading, are brute strong and much more reliable the there competition (LNL) I have two 550s and two LNLs. I bought my Lnl's when they were giving away a 1000 bullets. the bullets are gone and I still have the presses. Its not that there junk but they take a lot more tweaking and babysitting then a 650 does. Case feeders are an add on and don't run near as well as dillons do on a 650. So much so that my LNLs tend to sit unused. I have one set up in 223 and one in 45acp and got them all adjusted and for the most part load those rounds on them and don't bother swapping calibers. If it something else I just use a 550. 550s may not be the fastest but they run and run and run and rarely need any tweaking or even cleaning. Id about bet if if I did a round count in four hours on my lnl with a case feeder and auto indexing and did the same on a 550 there wouldn't be that big of a difference in the amount of good ammo produced. If I had to go to just one press for everything I load it would definitely be a 550 and that's even if you offered me a 1050. 1050s are wonderful presses but conversions cost an arm and leg and are more involved to swap out. If all I was going to do is load one or two pistol rounds the rest of my life I could live happily with a square deal.

[Petrol & Powder]

I own a 550 and have used a 650 and a 1050. They are all excellent machines.
I have loaded 10's upon 10's of thousands of rounds on a 550 and actually prefer it over a 650.

Looking back at the OP, his production rates are very conservative and would be easy to meet with either machine.
With the exception of the Square Deal B, Dillon dies use the standard 7/8" threaded body so just about any standard die will work with the 550 or 650. I have several tool heads with an assortment of different dies installed on the same tool head (Redding, RCBS, Dillon).

The key to speed with the 550 is extra pre-loaded primer tubes. YES, it takes time to load those tubes and you have to count that time but that task doesn't have to happen when you're loading.

With complete tool heads setup for each caliber you load, converting between calibers on a 550 can be accomplished very quickly. If you don't have to change primer sizes, it's even faster. The difference in cost between the 550 and the 650 is only $157. That isn't a huge difference but it could be put towards additional tool heads, power measures, etc. OR it could be put towards a second 550 ! The ideal situation is to have one machine set up for small primer and the other machine set up for large primer. Of course that doubles the cost of the presses and takes up more bench space. However it is the fastest way to change between large and small primers and gives you the redundancy of a spare machine. That could also be done with two 650's but you would be looking at almost $1200 worth of presses.
Just tossing out ideas here.

With preloaded primer tubes, I can achieve production rates of over 300 rounds per hour on a 550 (it's closer to 400 rounds). That's without a case feeder.

Both machines are excellent machines. I actually prefer the manual index of the 550 but that's a personal preference.
The cost between the two machines isn't that great and it's a one time expense for a tool that will last decades.

[dverna]

Caliber conversion costs are inconsequential in your case. Unless you plan on loading for 10 different calibers, ignore that disadvantage to the 650. I have owned all the Dillon machines. Two 1050's, a 650, two 550's and two SDB. I also had a Star.

I shoot about the same quantity of pistol ammunition that you do but mostly 9mm, 38 Spl. with some .45 ACP and .40 S&W. I currently have a 1050, and two 550's. My recommendation is to get a 650 with the case feeder. I also suggest the Dillon dies but the dies you have will work if money is tight.

Down the road, if you find the desire to shoot a few other calibers and conversion costs become an issue, get a 550.

I have the 1050 set up for small primers as that is what I shoot the most, with separate tool heads and measures for each caliber. One 550 for small primers and one for large primers. I never change primer systems as I am lazy.

[EddieZoom]

I actually prefer the manual index of the 550 but that's a personal preference.

I recently added a 550 to my bench, joining a decades old SDB and I have to say I think I prefer the manual index of the 550 as well. I've always had lots of stoppages on the SDB, mostly due to crappy brass that I didn't properly examine.

I have the same issues on the 550 (I know I should really get more disciplined about brass prep/sort) but since it's manual index the end result is smoother operation which ultimately leads to more speed...for me.

[Petrol & Powder]

I recently added a 550 to my bench, joining a decades old SDB and I have to say I think I prefer the manual index of the 550 as well. I've always had lots of stoppages on the SDB, mostly due to crappy brass that I didn't properly examine.

I have the same issues on the 550 (I know I should really get more disciplined about brass prep/sort) but since it's manual index the end result is smoother operation which ultimately leads to more speed...for me.

The manual index gives you a lot more control and it becomes almost automatic with repetition.

When I pull the handle down with my right hand, my left hand is retrieving a new bullet. I hold that bullet between my thumb and forefinger as I advance the shell plate. While that's happening, my right hand picks up a new casing. The casing gets placed in station 1 at the same time the bullet is placed on the casing in station 3. It sounds complicated but it happens almost as fast as pulling the handle.

With manual indexing, a problem is easily corrected by simply pulling the offending casing out of the shell plate and checking the powder in section 2 before moving along again.

[jmac2112]

OK, so I have a further question regarding the die setup; forgive me if someone answered this and I missed it. If you look at my OP, I have developed a system for the way I do things with the Lee loader, and I'm pretty happy with it; I would just like to do it faster. On a 650, how much freedom is there in terms of what you do with each station? If I want to decap/size/prime on station 1, use an NOE expander plug on station 2, powder on station 3, seat the bullet on station 4, and use a Lee FCD on station 5, can I do that? Same with a 550, except that I would have to do decap/size/prime in a separate step (as I currently do)? I really like the NOE expander plugs, but the downside is that I have to do expanding and powder in two steps. I really don't like just flaring the case, since I experienced a lot of problems with crooked seating/shaving off the PC when I did it that way.

[sukivel]

OK, so I have a further question regarding the die setup; forgive me if someone answered this and I missed it. If you look at my OP, I have developed a system for the way I do things with the Lee loader, and I'm pretty happy with it; I would just like to do it faster. On a 650, how much freedom is there in terms of what you do with each station? If I want to decap/size/prime on station 1, use an NOE expander plug on station 2, powder on station 3, seat the bullet on station 4, and use a Lee FCD on station 5, can I do that? Same with a 550, except that I would have to do decap/size/prime in a separate step (as I currently do)? I really like the NOE expander plugs, but the downside is that I have to do expanding and powder in two steps. I really don't like just flaring the case, since I experienced a lot of problems with crooked seating/shaving off the PC when I did it that way.

I always use cast bullets in my 9/45/38/357 and flare using the Dillon powder funnels. I have never had a problem, and I don’t think u will with pc’d either. Save your noe sizer set for when u start loading other stuff on a single stage.


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[kayala]

jmac, priming is always station 2 on 650, depriming is always station 1. If you want to use Dillon powder measure then it's also number 2 or you loose safe rod, which automatically resets it. Stations 3, 4, 5 are whatever you put in them.

[Mytmousemalibu]

With the newest iteration of powder measure Dillon is using, the one with the failsafe rod, kinda has it in station 2 because that's where the bracket for it goes. Now you have some options. I believe the parts are still available from Dillon to use the older powder measure return spring setup that Dillon used to use. The measure including with the press is configurable that way, same measure just with a new style return linkage. If you backdated it, you could move it no problem. You might be able to with the failsafe rod if you fabbed a bracket for it. You can also use any other manufacturers case activated powder measures which you have freedom to move. I have several toolheads with the LEE auto drum because they are inexpensive and have proven reliable and accurate, all for about $35 a pop.

The best option if you would consider is use the included Dillon measure in position 2 as designed, its an excellent measure. Here's the caveat, buy yourself a Mr. Bulletfeeder aftermarket powder funnel. I promise you won't be disappointed with it! The Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel is essentially an "M-die" or NOE style powder funnel that does the same thing. It honestly should be included with the press but just glad the option exists. Bullets drop squarely into the brass and no harm done to bullet coatings or plating. The Dillon powder funnel works, I load a lot of coated 9mm and plated 9mm bullets and the original funnel never caused shaving but bullets with tip in the case mouth a fair bit easier which isn't a problem with the Bulletfeeder funnel. Thankfully with Dillon's bullet seating die, it has an enormous chamfered/radiused die mouth that will straighten very crookedly placed bullets and seats them straight in without bulges or run-out. It all equals a smooth running machine in the end. You won't believe just how fast a 650 can turn a pile of components into a pile of range ready ammo!

I can make all the ammo I'd need for a weekend of club shooting matches in about 10min running the handle.

[jmac2112]

Great! So it sounds like the stock setup with its flaring die would work just fine, and I'll have to look into the Mr. Bulletfeeder option as well. I was leery of using a flare die because of my experience with Lee, which seemed to work OK with uncoated bullets, but not so much with PC. In any case, I would always end up with some bullets (maybe 1 in 20) that seated crooked and wouldn't chamber.

Thanks again to all for the advice!

[jmac2112]

A follow up question about the Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel: I looked it up, and they don't give specs for how much it expands the case. I've been sizing my boolits about .001 over bore size, and I assume that, say, the 9mm expander it geared toward .356 diameter. Better too tight than too loose, but does Mr. B offer any options as to the size?

Thanks!

[Mytmousemalibu]

I don't think they offer any other sizes that im aware of but I haven't had any issues. Ill have a look when I get off work this evening and take a measurement for you. I can try sticking a .38/357 bullet in a case too. If they fit, you'll be just fine!

It might be worth chatting with Lathesmith on here and seeing if he can duplicate the Mr. Bulletfeeder in custom sizes? It would be a great alternative.

[sukivel]

Great! So it sounds like the stock setup with its flaring die would work just fine, and I'll have to look into the Mr. Bulletfeeder option as well. I was leery of using a flare die because of my experience with Lee, which seemed to work OK with uncoated bullets, but not so much with PC. In any case, I would always end up with some bullets (maybe 1 in 20) that seated crooked and wouldn't chamber.

Thanks again to all for the advice!

I have the Lee expander die as well and the Dillon funnels do better at flaring, with no shaving.

I need to look into the Mr B funnel as well...


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[jmac2112]

I don't think they offer any other sizes that im aware of but I haven't had any issues. Ill have a look when I get off work this evening and take a measurement for you. I can try sticking a .38/357 bullet in a case too. If they fit, you'll be just fine!

It might be worth chatting with Lathesmith on here and seeing if he can duplicate the Mr. Bulletfeeder in custom sizes? It would be a great alternative.

Thanks for your offer! The more I research this, the more I think that I'm probably creating a problem where there is none, but it would be nice if you get a chance to verify this for me.

[jmac2112]

I have the Lee expander die as well and the Dillon funnels do better at flaring, with no shaving.

I need to look into the Mr B funnel as well...

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If you are referencing the type of expander that merely flares the case mouth, I've tried that with mixed results. The setup I currently use involves replacing the flaring plug in the Lee Universal Expander Die with a plug made by NOE Bullet Molds. This plug works like a Lyman M die in that the tip of the shaft expands the case so it's .002-.003 under bullet diameter (or whatever--you can buy them in different sizes), and then the next part of the shaft expands the mouth so it's a little bigger than bullet diameter. That creates a "ledge" that the bullet sits on, which ensures that the bullet goes in straight. If you adjust it so the plug goes in deeper, you can also bell the case mouth, but I find that this is usually unnecessary.

From what I'm seeing, it looks like the Dillon powder die expands the case to just under bullet diameter and then flares the case mouth, without creating the handy "ledge" for the bullet to sit on. This is certainly better than the Lee method, but doesn't seem as good as the Lyman M/NOE plug method. It must work pretty well, however, since Dillon users seem very happy!