Dillon 550 vs. 650?

[Plate plinker]

Run your 9mm and 380 on the new dillon whatever model and keep your Lee for 45acp so you do not have to switch primer systems. Unless it’s super easy on those machines. I run the 1050 and it’s a loathsome task to change the primer assembly over. Guess I need a second machine.

[Tazman1602]

Ideally in a perfect world I'd tell you to go to a Square deal B -- I have several and LOVE them for handgun loading but....I also have two 550's and even though it takes time to change calibers (not that much really...) I use those mostly for rifle cartridges.

You know what? I haven't seen it yet, but why don't you give Dillon tech support a call? They've always been helpful for me and might be able to help you also.

Just my .0002 worth.

Art

[Law.man]

I got two XL650 - one is set up for large primers and the other one for small. That way the caliber changes take only about a minute or two. In my humble opinion, unles you get a really, really good deal on a 550, there is no good reason not to go for the 650.

Two reasons:
1) the 650 is faster, provided that you use a casefeeder (which by all means you should). If you do not feel like spending that kind of money for a factory unit, it is not too hard to build. I made two for both my 650s and each was about 20 bucks or so and a weekend worth of work (if fun projects count as work).

2) the 650 toolhead has 5 stations, whereas 550 only has 4. If you use cast boolits, it is a good idea to have a dedicated case expander (I use lee universal expander die and NOE expander plug) and if you reload for revolvers, I find it easier to seat/roll crimp in two separate steps. This uses up all 5 stations of 650. On 550 you have to give up one of these.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for your offer! The more I research this, the more I think that I'm probably creating a problem where there is none, but it would be nice if you get a chance to verify this for me.

Sorry I didn't get this to you as soon as I said, I completely forgot to check last night. I'm losing my dang memory!

The Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel has 2 different diameters on the expander plug. The first diameter and the 1st part that enters the case mouth measured at .353 diameter. There is a slight step half way up the expander and this is the next diameter measures at .358 in diameter. I cycled a couple pieces of sparkly clean 9mm brass through, both happened to be Federal. I was able to easily drop an H&G #50 wadcutter, .3575-.358, lubed bare lead, cast about Bhn 8.7, very soft lead. I seated one and it dropped in the casemouth with featherweight pressure, nice & square with out at all risk of shaving. I seated the bullet deep, almost 1/4 deep and only the last 1/16 of the base swaged down, well deep enough that case wall taper and stiffness was the root cause of in-case swaged bullets. The rest of the bullet survived no worse off and recall this is a .38 Special/.357 wadcutter in 9mm brass. Your quite safe with the Mr.B funnel. I do .355-.356 jacketed, copper plated, and coated bullets, not a trace of issue!

Hope that helps!

[jmac2112]

Sorry I didn't get this to you as soon as I said, I completely forgot to check last night. I'm losing my dang memory!

The Mr. Bulletfeeder funnel has 2 different diameters on the expander plug. The first diameter and the 1st part that enters the case mouth measured at .353 diameter. There is a slight step half way up the expander and this is the next diameter measures at .358 in diameter. I cycled a couple pieces of sparkly clean 9mm brass through, both happened to be Federal. I was able to easily drop an H&G #50 wadcutter, .3575-.358, lubed bare lead, cast about Bhn 8.7, very soft lead. I seated one and it dropped in the casemouth with featherweight pressure, nice & square with out at all risk of shaving. I seated the bullet deep, almost 1/4 deep and only the last 1/16 of the base swaged down, well deep enough that case wall taper and stiffness was the root cause of in-case swaged bullets. The rest of the bullet survived no worse off and recall this is a .38 Special/.357 wadcutter in 9mm brass. Your quite safe with the Mr.B funnel. I do .355-.356 jacketed, copper plated, and coated bullets, not a trace of issue!

Hope that helps!

Yes, that's great info to have! Thanks for checking that for me. It does seem like Dillon would want to offer something similar, but for $32 it seems like a fantastic upgrade.

[jmac2112]

Two reasons:
1) the 650 is faster, provided that you use a casefeeder (which by all means you should). If you do not feel like spending that kind of money for a factory unit, it is not too hard to build. I made two for both my 650s and each was about 20 bucks or so and a weekend worth of work (if fun projects count as work).

Now THIS sounds very interesting. The cost of the casefeeder is the main thing holding me back from going with a 650. Do you have plans for your homemade casefeeder that you could share with me? Years of working on old Triumph motorcycles has made me pretty mechanically inclined, so I think I would enjoy this sort of project. My wife calls me 'MacGyver'.....

[Law.man]

Not exactly plans, I can post some photos and take some measurements over the weekend if you are interested.

Here is what it looks like:




The base is made of some plywood I had lying around - a round disc about 12" in diameter with a notch cut in one place to accomodate the case funnel. The round base is supported by a chassis also made from plywood - this part I would have to measure as I don't remember the dimensions exactly, but the idea was to make it in 45° angle and about 5" tall to leave enough space inside for the electric circuits and motor. The chassis is attached to the press via 5 ordinary plastic 1" water pipe brackets (can be found in any hardware store) screwed to the rear portion of the chassis. The whole assembly basically slides onto the black pipe of the press and stops when it contacts the plywood disc. The black bucket was also bought at a hardware store and cut at about 45°angle - I did not measure it, just cut it with jigsaw as I saw fit.

The bucket is bolted to the plywood disc base with about 8 bolts to make sure it holds solid, the inside of the bucket then needs to be made perfectly flat, which I achived by cutting about 11" disc from 1/5" polycarbonate, which i hot glued on several places to the bottom of the bucket to make a solid bedding. I made sure to take it out again before the hot glue completely cooled so that it can be taken out for cleaning. Both the bucket and the bottom plate need to have a notch about 1.5x2" matching the notch in the base plywood disc, through which the cases fall down to the funnel. Then you need another 11" disc cut from 1/5" polycarbonate and drill holes around the edge with proper size dril bit. For large pistol cases such as 45acp i went with 9/16" size, for small I can't remember at the moment, but probably something like 7/16". Then I cut the holes open with a jigsaw and cleaned up the edges with a dremel and a sandpaper drum. This was probably the most time-consuming part.

Then there is the motor. I ordered a 12v 3RPM worm motor off ebay for some 6 bucks (this). Then I took a 5/16" socket, drilled a hole inside to match the shaft of the motor and soldered it in place (though a JB weld would probably do the same job as well). The motor is mounted from the bottom side of the plywood base disc, with the socket protruding through a hole in the base and bucket and the polycarbonate bottom inside the bucket. The other dics with slots all around has a hex 5/16" bolt fixed in the center, which conveniently plugs into the socket driven by the motor.

The funnel is where the most room for error is as its shape affects orientation of the cases as they fall in the feeding tube. After some trial and error I just cut off a coke bottle, stuck it there and voila, works like a charm - though there were some minor adjustments to be made.

The electric part is fairly easy. The power is supplied by an old cell phone charger I had around, 12v and 1.5 amp. This is plugged into a plug bought at radio shack. Then there is a master power switch for the motor, power switch for a light I mounted to the toolhead and a socket for the light plug, for when I switch between calibers (I got a LED light on each toolhead, they cost about a dollar each, so I figured I might as well buy several of them to give to friends and some I had left). The feeding cycle is controlled by a microswitch also bought at radioshack - one with the longest arm they had in stock. I had to cut a slot in the case feeding tube (or in this case in an extension made out of a 1" plastic water pipe) and position the switch so that when it fills with cases, the last case puts enough pressure on the micro-switch arm to break the circuit and stop the motor.

And that is about it. I do get about 1% of cases turned upside down, but all things considered, that is a tradeoff I can live with.

[jmac2112]

That's fantastic! I can see or imagine how most of it fits together, though I may have a few questions later. Thanks for posting this!

[Law.man]

Feel free to pick my brain I'll take some more pictures over the weekend.

[jmac2112]

Feel free to pick my brain I'll take some more pictures over the weekend.

I'm sure I will be doing that, and any pictures you can post would be much appreciated! I grasp the general way that a casefeeder operates, but I've never seen one in real life.

[Crash_Corrigan]

Lawman: I gotta give ya the GOLD STAR for what you came up with. That looks like my next project. I have a 550B and an XL650 but I have only one casefeeder. So I swap it back and forth from press to press with no difficulty.

I might pick up another XL 650 down the road to eliminate the switch out of the primer systems when going to small etc. and having one Dillon Casefeeder and two homemade would certainly help out. It cost you a small amount to make it....imagine how much it cost Dillon? By buying components by the thousands their cost would be about 1/3 of what you spent. However they have to pay a worker a decent salary to assemble it so it might actually cost more.

In either case they should be making quite a decent profit on every casefeeder they sell. I see that other manufacturers also sell casefeeders so I doubt that there are any patents out there to violate. With a few modifications you might just have a new job for yourself.

[Law.man]

Thanks for the kind words...well if you take into account the time you spend by manufacuring and adjustments, you end up with a whole working day or two weekend afternoons, so I imagine that for some folks who do not like to go all Tim Taylor and prefer to buy a quality OEM product, the price (239 from Dillon) is not all that unjustified, given there is quite a bit of research involved and a production line to be paid for (they don't exactly sell these by the millions, do they). But for folks who enjoy a little DIY project, this is a fun thing to do and on the top of that you save yourself some 200+ bucks in the process.

Anyway, here go some additional pictures, as advertized.




Here on the top feeding plate you can see the three agitators duct-taped on the top that kind of stir the cases around to make them want to get picked up by the grooves in the feeding plate.
The green piece of plastic near the cutout is a strip cut off a plastic bottle sticked in there with 3M tape - a bit hillbilly mod, I know. It is slightly bent inwards and helps to straighten out the cases right before they drop into the funnel. It greatly improved reliability of the whole device.

[Law.man]

Some pictures with a tape measure to give you a better idea about the dimensions. The units are centimeters cause I don't have an inch tape measure around. I did not measure the two polycarbonate discs, as they have to match the inner diameter of the bucket, so it depends on the bucket size you choose.

[Law.man]

Here is the backside with the 1" plastic water pipe mounting brackets and the electrical components.





And here is the optional LED light - got a bunch of these off ebay (this), it is installed in the small hole on the toolhead right next to the powder measure. The LED light shank is taped around with electrical tape to make it fit snug inside. Not sure about the original purpose of the hole, but it serves well for the LED light. It positions the light right above the case which just had a powder charge dropped in - makes visual inspection of each charge easier.

[jmac2112]

Bravo! Thank you very much for taking so many photos. I've already started sourcing bits and pieces for this project, and I did want to ask what you thought about using a 3 or 4 rpm microwave turntable motor to drive the plate. I can get one of those plus the adapter piece that the shaft fits into for about $15 delivered, and it looks like it would be pretty easy to attach the adapter to the plate. I like the motor you have too, but I've heard that at least some microwave motors will auto-reverse if they sense too great a load, and that would be a handy feature to have.

Thanks,

John

[Law.man]

Sure, the microwave motor seems like a good idea. The key is keep the RPM at about 3 - this way I can't outrun the casefeeder even at a quick pace (100rds in about 10 minutes), but it is it slow enough to drop the cases reliably without them either getting stuck in the drop window or jammed in the funnel - if two fall in fast enough right after one another, they can get stuck in the funel. The reverse function in case of motor overload would be very nice to have as well. My failsafe is basically that the motor turns in a direction that loosens the hex screw fixed in the middle of the feeder plate in case it gets stuck - I just had to figure out the right amount of torque to tighten the bolt with (again trial and error) to allow it to carry the weight of about 300 45acp cases without loosening.

[jmac2112]

OK, thanks! And one more question: Is there any benefit to having the plate thicker than 1/4"? Would the cases be any more likely to stay upright if it were 5/16" or 3/8"?

[Law.man]

Well, the 1/5" sems to retain the cases well enough. I do not see why a 1/4" would not work just as well. But in my opinion there is no added value in using a much thicker (and more expensive) plate, unless of course you already have some lying around. Technically it should work equally well.

[6bg6ga]

I sort of cussed my 650 last night as I setup for some 9mm with 124gr hollow point. I had been reloading 44 mags and I only have two powder measures one of which stays on my 45acp setup. Anyway I managed about 20 rounds that needed to be run manually thru my Lyman t-mag with standard 9mm dies and the RCBS powder dropper. What looked like it was a massive bunch of primed and belled mouths with no powder or bullets took only a few minutes to run manually drop the powder in and add a bullet.

One the setup casualities were taken care of I was off running about 16-18 rounds a minute without breathing hard. As I ask myself are you happy with the 650 my answer is always a yes.

[DocSavage]

I've 2 650s mounted on Rocdoc adaptors. The Rocdoc base is attached to a strong mount bolted to my bench. Personally I find changing out the spring load primer cup a pain as there's no room to get a wrench in the space to unbolt it.
There are several companies that make tool heads for the 650,one company make the toolhead with the caliber machined into the face of the toolhead also they are machined from a billet where the Dillon toolhead starts life as a casting I believe.
The only calibers I could 't get to work properly are 308 Win,40/65 and 45/70.
All the advice you've been given has been my experience and I've had my machines for the better part of 20 years.