Anyone else copper plating?

[#40Fan]

Hey, getting somewhere. Cleaned with Muriatic Acid and rinsed with distilled water. My only screw up is I didn't clean the basket that I used to dump the bullets out of the acid into. I am guessing that is the reason for the black spots. Will get that fixed with the next go around.

I also added some Sulfuric Acid to my bath.

This is from only 3 1/2 hours and I already have a .003" coating on it!!! .0015" per side. .0015" overall is what I ended up with on the last run after 7 or 8 hours in the solution. Definitely an improvement.



If you don't want to scroll up and look, this is what they looked like after 4 hours in the previous test.

[lefty o]

lefty o, good to hear from someone that has done it and in such a magnitude. Can you share your prepping process and chemistry?

I am currently trying what I found on youtube with ZAP tree root killer and some copper tubing. I was initially only tumbling a few bullets to see how things would go.

our chemistry was a cyanide bath, of course mostly water but also potassium hydroxide, potassium cyanide, and a bit of copper cyanide. i dont know what your using, but to me your results appearance looks like your tanks are cold. we plated at 140deg, and anything under 120 really plated ugly.

[#40Fan]

Yep, room temp/cold water. Next step is to get heat to it.

Using copper sulfate, ZEP Root Killer and for the sulfuric acid I added some Clean Shot Drain Opener. Both, along with the Muriatic Acid, purchased at Lowes.

Thanks for the response, lefty o.

[#40Fan]

Wet tumbled for a couple of hours. Sized to .309" on the left side, un-sized on the right, Sierra 175 SMK in the middle for comparison.



If there is a really dark spot, I can shave the plating off with my finger nail. Everything else is impossible.

[OS OK]

When you've worked out the fine details about temp. and such...How long would you guess it'd take to do say 1,000 casts?
All in one batch or smaller batches?
I guess the next move is to see whether they get downrange with all their Cu intact or whether or not some gets left behind in the barrel.
X-Treme gives a statement about their plating coming off with extreme speeds and suggest one of their thicker plated casts, I think they refer to it as double struck.

This is a pretty interesting thread Forrest.

[popper]

copper does not like to stick to lead of its own free will

Yea, lead doesn't accept/release electrons readily so I've heard many use a zinc wash to aid in plating.

[#40Fan]

When you've worked out the fine details about temp. and such...How long would you guess it'd take to do say 1,000 casts?
All in one batch or smaller batches?
I guess the next move is to see whether they get downrange with all their Cu intact or whether or not some gets left behind in the barrel.
X-Treme gives a statement about their plating coming off with extreme speeds and suggest one of their thicker plated casts, I think they refer to it as double struck.

This is a pretty interesting thread Forrest.

I am sure it wouldn't take a whole lot to upscale this to do a few hundred bullets at a time.

[#40Fan]

I have a batch going with a hot bath tonight. Had a minor issue because a part that connects the rotisserie motor to the shaft that connects to the bowl, was printed out of PLA filament. Well, it goes soft around 55-60° C. It went soft on me and failed. Ran out to the freezing garage and fired up my ABS printer and made a new piece in 30 minutes.

I also learned that cleaning them longer in the Muriatic Acid is not a good thing. They turn black and it leaves a powdery type substance on the bullet. Even after trying to wipe it off, it doesn't allow the copper to adhere very well. I had some bullets that were soaked for 30 minutes or so in the acid that after being placed in the bath for two hours, barely had a coat on them. Cast some new bullets, cleaned with the acid for 5 minutes, tossed in the bath and had a coat on them in less than 5 minutes. I am still getting these "liver" spots on the bullets though.


i want to upload my photo

If you compare this photo to the one a few posts up, they do look better, spot wise. This was also taken only 30 minutes into the run.

[EMR]

After this thread piqued my interest in copper plating, I found a few sources that say a too strong solution of copper and stagnant solution can lead to those dark burn spots.

[#40Fan]

Thanks for the post, EMR. It is possible I have too much copper sulfate in there. About all I could find when using the ZEP Root Killer is to keep adding until it won't dissolve anymore and stop there. Edit: I am also circulating the solution in the bath. Thinking about getting an aquarium pump to create bubbles for agitation as well.

I am glad to report that after an hour there has been a .003" of plating laid down. Took 3 1/2 hours to get there last time. Heat might be the key there.

[lefty o]

try some laundry detergent to clean them. we had some wicked nasty caustic soap.

[rancher1913]

at first I thought you were just goofing off trying to plate but holy cow you are getting somewhere, sucks because now I might have to try this and I have too many other irons in the fire right now.

[#40Fan]

try some laundry detergent to clean them. we had some wicked nasty caustic soap.

I did pick up some TSP to try. Give it a go tomorrow.

at first I thought you were just goofing off trying to plate but holy cow you are getting somewhere, sucks because now I might have to try this and I have too many other irons in the fire right now.

I was doing it for S's and G's, but it is turning out better than I thought.

[lefty o]

I did pick up some TSP to try. Give it a go tomorrow.



I was doing it for S's and G's, but it is turning out better than I thought.

worth a try. i was just thinking that if you didnt get your acid 100% neutralized, it could cause problems.

[#40Fan]

TSP was a no-go. At least how I tried to clean the bullet with it.

I took one bullet and marked it. Weighed it too. Hot water with TSP and swirled for a good 3 minutes. Dropped it in the bath and it had a brown spot within a minute. I went ahead and let it coat for an hour with the rest of the bullets and then pulled them. After one hour, that bullet gained 1.5 grains and .003" of plating while the other bullets over the 4 hours gained .007"! Yesterdays .0035" were tough to size to .309", so I can't imagine how hard these are going to be. I threw them in the wet tumbler with SS pins and will pull them out in two hours like last night.

lefty o, do you happen to know what the voltage/amps you plated at?

The video I found on youtube that I am going off of, said he used a 3V 5A PSU. The smallest I found that I had was a 3.3V 3A wall charger. I have no idea what it was for and whether the type of metal the wires it is made out of is the right kind for this project, but I ran with it. Some other videos show PSUs with adjustable voltages/amps, being ran closer to 1V. I don't know if you can tell from my pictures, but I am just dangling the negative wire into the bath where it will make contact with the bullets as they are being rotated in the bowl. Ghetto, but I didn't want to put too much money into a project that might fail. If it wasn't for having most of the stuff I am using on hand, or being able to 3D print the parts, I could easily be in the $150+ range. Luckily, the only thing I have had to purchase is the chemicals and a roll of 1/4 copper tubing and I am still $40 into this project.

[lefty o]

TSP was a no-go. At least how I tried to clean the bullet with it.

I took one bullet and marked it. Weighed it too. Hot water with TSP and swirled for a good 3 minutes. Dropped it in the bath and it had a brown spot within a minute. I went ahead and let it coat for an hour with the rest of the bullets and then pulled them. After one hour, that bullet gained 1.5 grains and .003" of plating while the other bullets over the 4 hours gained .007"! Yesterdays .0035" were tough to size to .309", so I can't imagine how hard these are going to be. I threw them in the wet tumbler with SS pins and will pull them out in two hours like last night.

lefty o, do you happen to know what the voltage/amps you plated at?

The video I found on youtube that I am going off of, said he used a 3V 5A PSU. The smallest I found that I had was a 3.3V 3A wall charger. I have no idea what it was for and whether the type of metal the wires it is made out of is the right kind for this project, but I ran with it. Some other videos show PSUs with adjustable voltages/amps, being ran closer to 1V. I don't know if you can tell from my pictures, but I am just dangling the negative wire into the bath where it will make contact with the bullets as they are being rotated in the bowl. Ghetto, but I didn't want to put too much money into a project that might fail. If it wasn't for having most of the stuff I am using on hand, or being able to 3D print the parts, I could easily be in the $150+ range. Luckily, the only thing I have had to purchase is the chemicals and a roll of 1/4 copper tubing and I am still $40 into this project.

we plated at 250amps per barrel, but we ran 250lbs+ in a barrel.

[#40Fan]

I am sure I am over powered then. Found some other videos on youtube, not dealing with bullet plating, that described using a low current as well. I'll wait and see how these bullets shoot before making the decision to step up my power supply situation.

How thick of a coating were you applying, lefty o? The way I see, and lack of better way to describe it, is I am only putting a condom on these bullets and hoping it doesn't break. I really think the better way to go, if feasible is to start with a .277" bullet and find a way to get .035" coating on it and then size it down to .309". Figuring out how to do that is going to be the problem. I guess I should ask too is how long did you leave the barrels in your bath?

[RPRNY]

This is cool. Please keep posting progress. Admire your efforts!

[#40Fan]

Here you go. Straight from the tumbler after 2 hours.

[#40Fan]

LOL. Noticing anything missing? Ran these through the .309 sizing die. Boy were they tough to get through.