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Thread: Franklin Armory non-NFA SBR

  1. #1
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Franklin Armory non-NFA SBR

    I've read in several places that Franklin Armory is coming out with an AR that has a sub-16" barrel and an actual buttstock and somehow it is not subject to NFA. Nobody is sure how exactly they pulled it off. Most likely explanation is that, like the binary trigger from the same firm, Franklin has found a microscopic loophole in the language of the NFA. If the gun is originally manufactured with both a stock and a sub-16" barrel it is not a non-NFA handgun or rifle. This also precludes it from being an NFA weapon made from a non-NFA rifle or handgun. The overall length is over 26", which apparently precludes it from being an AOW and somehow nullifies the barrel length issue because the weapon is not a non-NFA rifle and was never manufactured as such.

    I'm not planning to buy one but my hat is off to them for creative thinking:

    https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/fra...ttern-firearm/
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

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    Elkins45's Avatar
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    I’m quite curious to see what particular loophole they are exploiting.
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    Just because a handful of people on the Internet share an opinion doesn't prove it is correct.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    FWIW, Shockwave Technologies discovered a similar discrepancy about shotguns, many years ago ( http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 )


    Essentially, any shotgun originally made/issued as a PGO (Pistol Grip Only) shotgun can have a barrel shorter than 18" because it's considered just as a firearm & not as a shotgun - provided the mandated OAL of a minimum of 26" is adhered to.

    Non-PGO shotguns though, can have their barrels likewise shortened to only 18", with the 26" OAL minimum adhered to.

    Which is what I did with my 28" barreled non-PGO Mossberg 500:





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  4. #4
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Personally, I see nothing appealing about shooting a bottleneck rifle cartridge out of such a short barrel. Now, make it in a pistol caliber and you've got my interest. The main problem I see with these NFA workarounds is that ATF is free to change it's mind on legality any time they want to. Or, issue a series of contradictory opinions on them as they did with the pistol braces. ATF letters do not carry the force of law, they are only advisory and based on a particular sample of weapon or device.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Personally, I see nothing appealing about shooting a bottleneck rifle cartridge out of such a short barrel. Now, make it in a pistol caliber and you've got my interest. The main problem I see with these NFA workarounds is that ATF is free to change it's mind on legality any time they want to. Or, issue a series of contradictory opinions on them as they did with the pistol braces. ATF letters do not carry the force of law, they are only advisory and based on a particular sample of weapon or device.
    Actually, the manufacturer has NOT stated that the firearm is chambered for a bottleneck rifle cartridge. There is speculation that this may be a .410 shotgun.
    'I have a feeling we're not in Kansas any more, Toto!' Dorothy, in The Wizard of Oz.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Then in that case, I'm definitely out. If it is a shotgun, are they classifying it as a smoothbore pistol with stock over 26"? That should mean it is legal to add a stock to an existing smoothbore pistol over 26". This makes my brain hurt, and ATF could easily reverse itself when an anti-RKBA administration comes in.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

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    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by FergusonTO35 View Post
    Then in that case, I'm definitely out. If it is a shotgun, are they classifying it as a smoothbore pistol with stock over 26"? That should mean it is legal to add a stock to an existing smoothbore pistol over 26". This makes my brain hurt, and ATF could easily reverse itself when an anti-RKBA administration comes in.
    Stock and smoothbore means it has to have an 18" barrel. Firearms with a barrel less than 18", smooth bore, and OAL over 26" cannot have a stock without being subject to NFA regulations.

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  8. #8
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    im betting the stock is pinned, and as the afte has approved the braces as being ok to stick your chin on and still be a pistol, this thing is being sold as a pistol with a lot of hype.

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    That's kinda what I was thinking. A direct blow back straight wall cartridge pistol caliber pistol.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    just my opinion, but id bet on it being in .223/5.56.

  11. #11
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    The great Karnak says: "What is a Whitworth rifle,,,,,,"

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish View Post
    The great Karnak says: "What is a Whitworth rifle,,,,,,"
    Muzzle loaders, pre-1900 models, and certain replicas are exempt from NFA restrictions on caliber and length.

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    its a Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator
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  14. #14
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    I'm sure what there calling it is a handgun with an adjustable arm brace. Everyone arm is a different length don't your know
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    I'm sure what there calling it is a handgun with an adjustable arm brace. Everyone arm is a different length don't your know
    What I'm hearing is that it fires on the release, and they think they've had a loophole. I suspect that ATF will consider that to be a pull of the trigger. If you modified an SKS so that releasing the bolt caused it to slam-fire until it ran dry or hit an empty, ATF would still consider that a mahinegun even if the trigger was removed entirely.

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  16. #16
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdaniel.mac View Post
    What I'm hearing is that it fires on the release, and they think they've had a loophole. I suspect that ATF will consider that to be a pull of the trigger. If you modified an SKS so that releasing the bolt caused it to slam-fire until it ran dry or hit an empty, ATF would still consider that a mahinegun even if the trigger was removed entirely.

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    the trigger isnt the trick here, its the short barrel. the trigger will fire on the pull, and the release nothing new with that. binery triggers the ATF so far doesnt have a problem with, so long as they don double or fire more than 1 shot per any one action.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty o View Post
    the trigger isnt the trick here, its the short barrel. the trigger will fire on the pull, and the release nothing new with that. binery triggers the ATF so far doesnt have a problem with, so long as they don double or fire more than 1 shot per any one action.
    Again, I'm on secondhand scratch here, but apparently it *only* fires on release, not on the pull, therefore the ATF definition of "firearm" per the NFA would not apply, hence the barrel length restriction does not apply.

    Could be an airgun I guess.

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  18. #18
    Boolit Master lefty o's Avatar
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    a binary trigger fires both on the pull, and if set to do so, the release of the trigger. the trigger is not the hubub of this short barrel gun. even if it were, a pure release only trigger in any firearm, is still a firearm. heck a stripped ar15 is considered a firearm with zero parts installed in it.

  19. #19
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    release triggers were popular with trap shooters for a while. It still takes a movement of your figure to release the trigger. Binary triggers just do it both ways. Binary triggers and sig braces both come with a copy of the batf letter saying there legal. Only thing a guy would have to keep in mind is who knows what the liberals will do to those laws if they get back in power or what happens the first time someone with a AR pistol with a sig brace and a binary trigger is used in a mass shooting. Weve been sold out before!
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  20. #20
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    It is ONLY able to shoot with the binary trigger. There is NO semi function. So it is a firearm. Not a rifle or pistol.

    Look at the picture that is out and you will see the safe and the binary setting. NO semi

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