lubed lee 160tl 2nd round/2600fps

[Forrest r]

Finely got the time to get back out and re-test a couple loads. Weather hasn't been that great either but got a break and tried to make the most of it.

Re-barreld an old puma rifle and tested it for functon on the 1st outing. The 2nd outing I took some lee-160tl bullets out that were cast at the same time. Some were pc'd and others were lubed in a lyman 450/lbt blue the a coat of 45/45/10 added. The pc'd bullets held their own and the traditionally lubed bullets fell apart in the 36gr/2500+fps range. The groups looked more like a pattern. And the velocities were lower (around 50fps) then the pc'd bullets with the same powder/load.
[IMG][/IMG]

Put a 2nd coat of 45/45/10 on some bullets from the same lot/batch and went out and retested. This time the lubed bullets got the same velocity as their pc'd counterparts.
[IMG][/IMG]

While either group is nothing to write home about, the 2600fps load did manage to do a 2" 10-shot group.
[IMG][/IMG]

I actually could care less about groups/accuracy at this point. The 1st/2nd & now 3rd outing's are giving me excellent feedback. Need to bed another 1" of bbl, put high rise rings on and use a real rear bag to get rid of the horizontal stringing.

I shot 10 fouler shots in a clean bbl to season the bbl for those 2 10-shot groups pictured above. The clean bbl looked like this, shinny.
[IMG][/IMG]

The whole length of the bbl had an excellent light wash/coating in it. That 45/45/10 is impressive.
[IMG][/IMG]

I couldn't be happier to see the 45/45/10, traditional lubed bullets come around and equal their pc'd counterparts. I need to get the rifle dialed in so I can do head to head testing with the same bullets/powders. I like pc'ing bullets but I also like the traditional lubes also. When I finish burning up the lbt blue I probably switch over to the 2500. The 45/45/10 is going to get a workout and I did buy some of the jp floor wax but never did get around to making any.

The lee/pc'd combo looked real good with a 38gr/2700+fps load. Going to have to try the traditional lubed lee's with the same 38gr load.

[earlmck]

Nice report, Forrest. Thanks!

[John McCorkle]

Holy cow there cap'n that's amazing! Great work!

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[Forrest r]

Not really, there's others on this website like ben that came up with the 45/45/10 lube or larry that did posts about alloy's and their affects at high pressure/high velocity that laid the foundation for people like me.

I do need to get it together and tighten the groups up. Typically when you see horizontal stringing it's operator error.

I just wanted to put out there that 45/45/10 is an excellent lube and can not only stand up to some pretty extreme conditions. It does aid in sealing the bbl. It's always been my belief that bullet lube not only lubes the bbl, it is also a gasket. In the 1st tests I did I used minimal lube on a bullet and then put it head to head with a pc'd bullet. At the 36gr mark the traditionally lubed bullet started to fail. Accuracy went south and there was a velocity loss (the gasket thing) compared to the pc'd bullets. As you can see there isn't a lot of lube on the original bullet in the 1st test.
[IMG][/IMG]

I put a 2nd coat of 45/45/10 on those traditionally lubed bullets pictured above and re-tested. The end result was the velocity and groups of the bullets with the 2nd coat of 45/45/10 equaled the pc'd bullet not only in group size. They equaled the pc'd bullets in velocity & did so leaving the bore with an beautiful even coat.

[Boolseye]

I believe Recluse did the original post on 45-45-10, correct me if I’m wrong.

Agreed, good report. Would never have thought to push those pills that hard, good to know it can be done.

[35 shooter]

I believe Recluse did the original post on 45-45-10, correct me if I’m wrong.

That's right and Ben's tl lube is BLL made with Johnson's liquid wax.
Recluse's uses the Johnsons paste wax.

Forrest r that's some very fine cast boolit "speed" shooting, especially in a rifle you haven't even finished bedding yet....nice indeed!

[HangFireW8]

Good shooting and good info, just curious what distance those groups were shot at?

[popper]

Been shooting PC 308 for several years, no problems - I hardly ever clean the barrel (only when I screw up and get some leading). I've used the Recluse lube, too smokey for me but working with BLL now. Got some loaded for the 308 full power (2700 fps) to test. Lighter loads with AC alloy did OK. I see some 'stuff' in the barrel but it doesn't affect accuracy any. Recently did a 3 shot MOA @ 200 (2400 fps load), don't even remember when I cleaned the barrel last, probably a year or so. IMHO, 4895 (slower) will do better in that long barrel.

[Forrest r]

Recluse, I'm sorry, didn't realize you were the one that came up with such a wonderful lube. I use it all the time on anything from hbwc's to rifle bullets to 22lr's of all things. You're 45/45/10 is excellent with 22lr's that have the hard wax on them. I run the 22lr's thru a waltz die and re-lube them with your 45/45/10, bughole city.

Only 100 yds.

Shot a lot of 5-shot groups in the past doing ladder tests with jacketed bullets. Figured I'd do 10-shot groups with the cast bullets.

Thank you popper I actually need to pick up some more 4895. I have around 3/4# laying around. Was waiting for warmer weather to start using it. Figured I stick with a ball powder in the 20*/30* weather I'm shooting in right now & I have a bunch of H335 laying around.

[Boolseye]

45-45-10 is the bomb, I agree. I use it with TL boolits and non-TL alike.
I like making the original recipe, personally. Kinda old school I guess.

Now what are you doin' with those .22 LRs, Forrest r?

[Texas by God]

I read the whole thread- what cartridge and rifle? The only Puma rifle I know of is a Rossi that won't hold that much powder....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Forrest r]

The rifle is a CIL 950T chambered in 308w.:
"In 1970, Savage filled an order from Canadian Industries Limited for 200 right-hand and twenty-five left-hand 950-T single-shot target rifles adapted for use with Parker-Hale sights. These ten-pound Model 110s were stocked by Bishop."
All of them where 7.62x51mm, 1 in 12 twist.
They were for the DCRA(Dominion of Canada Rifle Association) shooters, Canadian version of U.S. long range Hi-Power. At that time they were given the ammo by the Canadian military that was to be used in the matches. You can say the Palma Match was an offshoot of that. No scopes allowed even today in the target rilfe category, The DCRA started the F Class category, where scoped can be used to get new blood involved and keep the older shooters who can no longer see with iron target sights going to matches.

The receiver has Made in the USA and is the older 4 3/4" hold down bolt pattern. The rifle originally had a 26" bbl 1 in 12 bbl chambered in 308w. The bolt and stock is #'d to the rifle. The rifle is a 1 of 200 rh version. If you ever used/shot the winchester 52d's or any of the remington 40x line of rifles (700 series) the 950t is no different except for the front sling rail. The 950t has the older 722 40x/win 52 b&c short front sling insert.
Anyway the rifle was setup to shoot prone which isn't the best for benchrest. Hopefully I'll be able to get out this weekend with some high rise mounts and the extra inch of bbl bedded.

[Forrest r]

45-45-10 is the bomb, I agree. I use it with TL boolits and non-TL alike.
I like making the original recipe, personally. Kinda old school I guess.

Now what are you doin' with those .22 LRs, Forrest r?

A lot of the cheaper 22lr ammo has the hard wax/crystalline wax for a lube. It does what it was designed to do namely: Provide some protection between the bullet/bbl and more importantly. It doesn't pickup and dirt/pocket lint/etc. I use a waltz die to reshape 22lr ammo putting a eps shaped nose on the bullets and making them .225" in diameter. I test lots of them using steel wool to clean the hard wax off and re-lubing them with 45/45/10. More often then not there's an improvement in accuracy with the 45/45/10.

I use/shot a lot of this ammo in the 22lr sporters that have match chambers. Along with making 2,000 round lots of ammo for a contender with a 22lr match bbl setup for standing silhouettes.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Boolseye]

Interesting. Many of those references (waltz die, eps shape) are foreign to me, I only have a limited knowledge of the intricacies of .22 ammo. I do shoot a lot of Bullseye so I’m modestly interested in making cheap ammo better! Nice looking Contender.
-BE