Enfield Headspace

[Multigunner]

Original rim thickness specs for the .303 were much smaller than you are likely to find among milspec .303 ammunition. This was the main reason they loosened headspace specs around the beginning of WW1 and again years later on.
Canadian manufactured ammunition held to the original specifications so Ross rifles had tighter headspace than Enfields. This led to many problems with the Ross rifles when British supplied ammo was all they could get.

[beemer]

If the rifle is unissued you probably will not have any problems. I bought an unissued one over 20 yrs. ago and the headspace was spot on and had a good chamber. The no 2 rifles were produced after the war and the rush was over.

All the above advice is still correct for reloading for the rifle, I stay away from hot loads, neck size with a Lee collet die and partial full length when necessary.

When changing bolt heads they need to be timed, it shouldn't turn past the lug more than 3/16 in. when screwed all the way in the body. This keeps the load on the bolt body instead of the threads.

I like #4 rifles, they can be a bit fussy about loads and bedding but if right they will fool you.

Dave

[Clark]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...bolt-head-help


Back in 2002 I was soldering shims on No 4 Enfield bolt heads.
I could not find any remaining high number bolt heads in the USA or Canada.
Some guy in FL said he had been doing the same thing for some time on No 1 Enfields.

[303Guy]

I have a martini 303 carbine barrel on a Lee Enfield action that has a very tight chamber. There is no visible expansion on a fired case and the shoulder does not move forward. But before I fitted this barrel to a 'new' action, the headspace was excessive.

I get infinite case life using an often frowned upon practice of lightly lubing the loaded cases with case lube (STP smoke stopper). Even then, I get the occasional case that does not set back on firing, leaving the primer backed out. But generally, the cases become a close fit in the chamber.

[alamogunr]

Still don't have the new Enfield. Between streets that are covered with ice and ornery UPS drivers, they are threatening to return the package to the sender. I have to take SWMBO in for a MRI in the morning so won't be home. I may try to schedule a pick-up since the UPS place is only about 20 miles away.

I had a little time yesterday so I got the first #4 MK II out to get somewhat familiar with it. Hate to admit that I've never shot it. My attention span is worse than a 6 year olds. While there I checked the brass on hand and found the 100 pcs of new Remington brass and approx 35-40 pcs of unknown brass. The unknown brass is headstamped IVI, 97(some 92) and 8Z, at approx 12, 4 and 8. I don't remember when or where I got it. I also found a RCBS neck size die set. I don't remember when I got that either.

country gent: I've been reading and re-reading your post about making a gage. I'm not sure that I fully understand what is accomplished and I am sure that my skills and drill press are not up to that kind of precision so the 'O' ring method may be my best option if needed.

If using the 'O' ring method, am I correct in concluding that the 'O' ring is only required on first firing of each piece of brass if the chamber has excessive headspace and that brass is only neck sized for that rifle afterward?

[leebuilder]

You are correct the o ring wont have to used again as the casing is fire formed to your chamber, provided it's neck sized properly.
IVI is Canadian ammo 1997 and 1992. The brass is ok some years it's top notch, thick at the bottom and a bit thin at the neck. 8z is boat tail bullet over smokeless powder. Very good ammo but hot, it was intended for use in machine guns at a farther range. Should shoot good in a new barrel. Most 303s prefer flat base j-thing-a-bobs.
Be well

[flintlocke]

Alamo, Listen to the Reverend Al! Your brass will last forever. Forget headspace, make the brass fit the rifle, once and done.

[alamogunr]

Strange that flintlocke's post should show up today. I spent an hour or so in the shop(first chance I've had in a few weeks) getting familiar with the Enfields. I tried the O'ring on the brass just to see how hard it would be to close the bolt. I'm no 90 lb weakling although a 75 yo weakling maybe, but I could not close the bolt. Maybe, a slightly smaller diameter, same OD would work.

I guess my next move is to try Reverend Al's method. At this point, I'm not working with the new Enfield. As someone posted, it should be OK.

How about if I just purchased a box of factory ammo and fired 10 rounds in each rifle? Compare the fired brass?

[KenT7021]

Most headspace problems on Lee Enfield are chamber problems not actual measured headspace.The chambers were cut that way because of the quality or lack thereof of wartime ammunition.

[samari46]

Save your money regarding buying U.S. manufactured 303 ammo. They are undersized at the case body area. Seem to recall .455 as the number being mentioned. Greek HXP and PPU is way better brass and you do not get the case bulges like the U.S. stuff. My #4 is dated 1947 so kinda have my doubts as to wether post war the Brits tightened up the specs. Frank

[fivefang]

Alamoguner, go to NAPA parts store ask for some ":Plasti-Gage" .002" to .006" remove the firing pin, spring etc. cut a pc of Plasti- Gage the width of the rim, place it under the casing on the bolt-face, close the bolt, open it then measure how flattened the Plasti - Gage is with the sheathing it was wrapped in, be sure that the bolt- face & ctg. base are CLEAN before the test, Fivefang

[fivefang]

Greenwart, a .45/70 bore brush slips into a ruptured case with ease& the bristles are angled to the base end which grabs the case-wall for rather easy ruptured case extraction , & I do not shoot cast bullets in a rifle without having a 36" x1/4" brass rod along, just my 2 cent's , Fivefang

[Reverend Al]

Alamo, Listen to the Reverend Al! Your brass will last forever. Forget headspace, make the brass fit the rifle, once and done.

Still the best method in my opinion and seems to give the best brass life. Again, taper expand the neck and then slowly adjust the sizing die down a little at a time until the bolt will JUST close. Fire form the "false shoulder" and then don't push it back again.

[nicholst55]

With an unissued rifle, all this worry about headspace is really not an issue. Adjust the FL sizing die to just barely touch the case shoulder; better yet, neck size your fired brass until it will no longer allow the bolt to close, then either FL size (as mentioned above), or just kiss the shoulder with a Redding body die.

Lee Enfield chambers are huge relative to other cartridges. Do a side-by-side comparison of a fired case and a factory loaded cartridge. You will see that the case shoulder has been moved forward and reshaped significantly. You do NOT want to needlessly bump this shoulder back each time you resize the brass. Following these tips will allow you to maximize case life for your Lee Enfield. Not following these tips will likely demonstrate the need for a ruptured case extractor.

Also realize that used bolt heads were individually fitted to each rifle to provide the headspace measurement required for that particular rifle. Thus, a used #1 bolt head may actually be shorter than a used #0 bolt head, and so on.

[alamogunr]

Thanks for the additional comments. I'm learning. Unfortunately, the wife and I are getting older. I'm fine(except for type 2 diabetes) but she is having continuing health problems. I can't leave her long enough to go to the range to try out some of the things suggested.

Nicholst55 comment about bolt head reminded me that I noticed a "2" on the bolt head of the older #4. Of course, I don't know if that means that it was replaced at one time to correct headspace.

Since I can't do much right now, I'm going to sit and cogitate on these latest posts for a better understanding.

[bob208]

I read an armorers paper where they told of soldering on shims. I had one built up with hard chrome it worked great.

[KCSO]

Per the service manual headspace min .064 max 074 war time 080 max. We have had good luck soldering a shim I have some out with over 1000 rounds through them with no problems. I set mine at 067 to account for brass differences. Even with proper headspace I would neck size and for best brass life I shoot 30-40 cases reworked as they are larger at the base and give a lot less expansion.

[Streetwalker]

Reverend Al is spot on with his case forming method. One thing that I noticed with my No.4's is that the chambers were not so much "fat" as they were "longer". I would speculate that would allow dirty, corroded ammo to be chambered and fired in a combat situation, even in the harshest conditions. The key thing to remember with this rifle and round, once the shoulder has been established for a particular rifle, dedicate brass for that rifle only and try not to move the shoulder back. I was able to find an old Herter's neck sizing die for the .303 at a gun show. After about 10 to 20 loadings with cast bullets, the bolt will be somewhat sticky to close on certain cases. I will then use a full length sizing die to SLIGHTLY bump the shoulder back, just enough to allow the bolt to close with a slight crush fit on the shoulder. This has worked for years and many, many rounds of Lyman 314299 cast hard over 12 gr. of Unique and a standard Remington primer. Absolutely FUN to shoot and compete with!!

[alamogunr]

Just an update on my earlier post when I couldn't close the bolt on the recommended "O" ring. I went to ACE and found a
7/16x5/16x1/16 ring. With a little muscle I could close the bolt. No matter. I think I will shoot both rifles, segregate the brass and neck size only.

Hopefully, SWMBO's health will improve by the time the weather clears up and I can get to the range.

Thanks to everyone,
John

[bernhardjw]

One more question for this forum: I have a No.5 Mark 1 Jungle carbine that I bought a few years back as a collectors piece, but actually have never shot so far.
I finally want to take it to the range, but decided to check the headspace first. Unfortunately I do not have the 0.074 coin type mil spec field gauge, since they are impossible to find. I used the Forster field gauge, which is 0.070 (SAAMI spec.) instead. It seemed I felt minimal pressure closing the bolt at the very end, but just barely. I did not want to pronounce the rifle unsafe based on this, so I cut a shim from a sheet of paper with known thickness (0.0025) and added it to the face of the bolt, then inserted the gauge again. With this, the bolt definitely would not close completely. Based on this, I would think that the headspace is less than 0.0725 and the rifle should therefore be safe to shoot with military surplus ammo at least. I just wanted to double check that my reasoning is correct. Any comments?