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Thread: 327 federal heavy bullets

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    327 federal heavy bullets

    I started a thread like this before, and got a lot of good replies. I've been shooting a 120 grain SWC plain base in my Ruger LCR with both 700x and Bluedot, and it's very accurate. I've been waiting about a month now for a Henry 327 federal I ordered from the local gun shop, and it's given me way too much time to think. It seems that the lever gun does not allow a cartridge OAL nearly as long as my LCR will. I've heard multiple reports now that the Henry will only handle an OAL that is slightly longer than the book max. My SWC's are quite a bit longer. I've been eyeballing the Accurate mold 31-135S for a while now, and would like that but with a gas check. It's a shame the 32 cal bullets are so light. The 327 seems to be at home around 115 grains, 100 grains is light for caliber IMO, but those 1500+ FPS velocities from a revolver look nice on paper. I think 135 grains with some slow powder in a rifle could be a mean combo. Has anyone else done something similar? I'm looking to push these to the max, although I never sacrifice accuracy for speed. I've always got H110, although I never seem to like it that much. Besides 2400, I've been checking out two powders that I think could work well. IMR 4227 and Alliant Power Pro 300-MP. I'm looking for load data if anyone has any for a bullet this heavy. Any input on powders is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master Guesser's Avatar
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    All my 327 revolvers prefer my hand cast 311316 GC. Comes in at 115-116 from my self formulated alloy. I load it with A#9 or 2400. Seems to do what I want. I have 100 gr. Rainier plated, they work but seem to shoot a little wider group than the heavier. Latest issue of Handloader has a great article on 327 and the wide, wide velocity variation in the 327. I've noticed differences of felt recoil and sound but I don't own nor need a chrono. I haven't read and reread the article yet, but it looks interesting.

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    I’ve been using the Accurate 31-125FG with red dot (since I have so much) in both my SP101 4” and my LCR. It is a gas check. I’ve wondered as well if the Henry would handle it. Very easy shooting with 3 gr of the red dot but I’m just a plinker. I believe I’m getting fairly close to 125 gr as cast with wheel weights + tin and love the cartridge and wide meplat. I’m traveling now and don’t recall COAL, but had some suspicions of the Henry not being able to handle it

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    This data for .32 S&W Long gives you a safe place to start with Alliant #2400 in the .327 with heavier bullets:

    .32 S&W Long Factory Loads Vs. Alliant #2400 In Revolvers and Rifle
    Remington cases, Federal 200 primers in all handloads:

    Ammo Type________________Colt 2”__________Colt 4”___________H&R18”

    PMC 98 LRN factory_________687, 13 Sd_______797, 17Sd________945, 16 Sd

    Accurate 31-114D, 6.3 #2400__768, 22Sd_______839, 37 Sd________1205, 22 Sd

    Accurate 31-125D, 6.3 #2400__820, 19Sd_______890 19 Sd_________1240, 29 Sd

    Accurate 31-134D, 6.3 #2400__828, 19 Sd_______913, 16 Sd________1221, 16 Sd
    Ejected cases fall out easily, clean burn, accurate, recoil similar to .38 Special +P.

    Attachment 211636Attachment 211637Attachment 211638
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks a lot for that info. If 32 S&W long can get over 1200 fps with a very similar bullet I want to, the 327 federal should really get them moving. Are these loads you worked up yourself? I've got plenty of manuals with all the older 32's, and none seem to go over 115 grain. I found a thread of a person who got a 150 gain cast bullet to 1125 fps with 2400 in a handgun with good accuracy.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I finally got the rifle, and took all the measurements I need to order a custom mold. I'm still shooting for 135-140 grains. I've decided on a SSK design, one I've shot in 44 mag and liked. It has a slightly smaller meplat, which after WAY more research than necessary, should work well at higher velocities. I'm looking to scale down the Penn 320 gr SSK 44 cal bullet speciffically, although I want to make it a GC bullet. I don't have anyway to estimate weight, but by comparison to other bullets of a similar design and length, it should be right in the 135-140 gr range.

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    Boolit Master dougader's Avatar
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    A group buy on a 135-140 grain Sledgehammer mould from Mihec just closed on Single Actions, but there's another open for 130 grain solid and 123 to 126 grain hp's. I'm in on the 2nd one.

    http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...ehammer-closed

    http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...-mjolnir-group

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    I ordered an early example of the NOE 314008, their adaptation of the old Ideal 3118 for the 32-20. Mine was a plain base version and with COWWs + a smidge of tin they consistently drop at 125 grains rather than the planned 115 grain bullet weight. This was absolutely fine with me as I needed a little extra weight in my 327 FM loads. This same bullet design is now a regularly stocked item, and I assume the weight would be similar to my example.

    I've been using the long discontinued H-108 powder to drive them, so I won't bother giving my charges here, but AA #9 starting loads for the 115 gr bullet are a pretty good place to start. I have not attempted to GC any loads for the 327 yet, the extra effort and expense don't seem necessary.

    Froggie
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I've gotten some minor leading with absolute max loads with those 120 grain bullets, and I would assume no longer accurate from a rifle. I'm looking to push even heavier bullets at maximum pressures, hopefully coming up on 1800 fps. I've heard AA #9 recommended a number of times, but I'm just not that into it. I have nothing else that I would want to use it in. I'm sure H110 will be a top performer, although I don't like using it. I've never tried IMR 4227, and I do have a number of guns I want to try it in.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougader View Post
    A group buy on a 135-140 grain Sledgehammer mould from Mihec just closed on Single Actions, but there's another open for 130 grain solid and 123 to 126 grain hp's. I'm in on the 2nd one.

    http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...ehammer-closed

    http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...-mjolnir-group
    The sledgehammer is the one that got me thinking about all this, but I wanted a smaller meplat and IIRC the sledgehammer was a PB. The first link bullet would work, but I'd really prefer a double crimp grooves. I know you can seat deeper, but I'd rather not pay that much, when I can get what I want for the same price. The second bullet would work as well, but is slightly lighter than I wanted.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 01-24-2018 at 09:06 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Thanks a lot for that info. If 32 S&W long can get over 1200 fps with a very similar bullet I want to, the 327 federal should really get them moving. Are these loads you worked up yourself? I've got plenty of manuals with all the older 32's, and none seem to go over 115 grain. I found a thread of a person who got a 150 gain cast bullet to 1125 fps with 2400 in a handgun with good accuracy.
    Yes, these are loads I've worked up in my own rifle and revolvers. I've shot the Accurate 31-155D in the .32 S&W Long with #2400 powder and gotten velocities approximating that bullet weight fired from a .38 Special +P of the same barrel length, but haven't published the load, because it would be a bit warm for anything other than Rugers.
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I had the bullet all drawn up on the Mountain mold website. It was perfect, except one small detail. I could not figure out how to add a second crimp groove. Has anyone ordered a double crimp groove mold from Mountain before?

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks Outpost I was wonder about data to work with for heavy cast of 327.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I just sent an email to Tom at Accurate Molds, and hopefully he can create it. I tried mountain molds, but he can't make a double crimp groove. Here's the bulk of it, but it will have a second crimp groove at .475".

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #15
    Boolit Man wildcatter's Avatar
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    I been looking at this caliber for the past couple years, but with the Blackhawk not comming to a second run I just waited, and ponderred. Well when the GP100 5.5 was reintroduced I hesitated just long enough to see the Stainless 6" Full get introduced,,, I no longer hesitated! I wanted the longer cylinder first off, then I wanted the heavier framed gun for a solid hunting platform. I also wanted more than 5" barrel to squeeze a little more outa the slower powders with some serious large varmint choices.

    This was my initial outings, a .312" cast 120 grn bullet from Matts, as I also am waiting on invoices from Mihec for the 100 gr, (small game hunting bullet) and the 140 grn. sledge hammer, I also am on the 127 Sovjern bullet list, all GB's at SA forums. Yhis Matt's bullet is a little undersize for the .3128" throats in the 6" GP, but to get some feel for the gun they are not all that bad.
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    The data I've seen say's AA#9 has done better for velocity in the weapons folks are reporting on, most are under 4" in barrel length. This is not ideal for H110/296 performance, it is a slower powder that I believe will be better for velocity and accuracy in the longer carbines. I am going to find out in the 6" GP100 as H-110 will be my starting point with 120 grain and over slugs. Grouse Rabbit, squirrel, and the such in edible game will be saved for 1000-1100 fps 100 grn solids.

    I think from others I have talked to that 120's and up, H110, AA#9, Longshot, and 2400 are what I would start with in a 16 to 20 inch carbine. Oh ya, I like the 205M Federal primer for any carbine loads, and will be working in the GP100 with them along with a new 115-315 FN mold from NOE that just arrived yesterday. If you can run 1.5" col this bullet will work and with a copper GC I'm casting 126 grn. It is an excellent bullet design, cast very good from my 10# COWW with 5# pure lead and 5# straight Lyno mix with 6 oz of 99% tin bullion added. O'm working these new bullets up using the top grease groove for a crimp ring and expecting to be able to really push them,, well see, but I won't catch that carbine for sure, and I think you'll find H110 will put a smile on your face in that new Henry!
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    Last edited by wildcatter; 12-05-2018 at 10:40 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Accurate molds has since added that mold I drew, and I have bought it. I'm still waiting, and expect it in the next couple of weeks. Since then, I've actually found some things that makes me wish I had slowed down. The main thing being, I see no reason at all that the Henry can't be modified for a longer cartridge. there is at least a 1/2" of room extra for the bolt, and the receiver opening is nearly as generous. All I can figure is that if modified, it won't feed .32 H&R mag very well. That is just fine by me. I plan to call Henry first, but I definitely want to be able to feel cartridges that can do the 327 federal some justice. Ideally, I'd open it up .075", giving a very reasonable COAL max of around 1.600".

    The bullet I designed has a nose of .325", which should be fine in the Henry as it is now. It is basically a scaled down 44 cal SSK bullet. The thing with mine is that the throat is quite long, and oversize to about .315". I've tried as-cast bullets that are around .315", but they are too big, and loaded rounds don't drop freely in the chamber. I decided on the SSK, as it is essentially a mini bore riding bullet, thinking it might self-align better. The more I look into it, I think a bullet with a long nose, and a tangent ogive that closely matches the leade angle is the best way to go, along with a moderate alloy, so that it obturates to fill the throat. I've been shooting a SWC bullet, and while they are awesome in my handgun, they don't fit my rifle. The last batch I ran are a whopping 26 BHN (not entirely on purpose), and being undersized, don't fit the throat. The SWC was never known to be a good bore aligning bullet either, its more of a throat aligner. I've still managed decent accuracy, but I'm hoping for at least 3 MOA, just because.

    As for powder choices, I'm feeling like H110 will be the best for the SSK-style bullet. Being 140 grains with a .325" nose, it will use up quite a bit of powder space. H110 is quite dense, and should provide decent speed. I'm sure I'll be trying my personal favorite of Blue dot as well.

    In a way, I was hoping for a 327 blackhawk as well. I have the snub nose, and I have the rifle. A larger handgun would be cool. I looked into the GP100, but that's not what I had in mind. I think a little single action would be the ticket. The single seven is awesome, but that short cylinder is a deal-breaker to me. Freedom Arms has the perfect gun for me in the model 97, but that price tag means I will probably never own one.
    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 02-19-2018 at 09:11 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    I got the Accurate mold in the mail, and cast bullets with it that night. Before all that, I've been playing with the Accurate 31-120K some more, I love that bullet. It looks like all the fine folks here were right. I had been trying to get these way too hard. At first I had cast with a mystery alloy, which could have been pure lead for all I know. Water dropped #2 worked. I had ordered some 41 mag bullets from GT bullets cast of 96/2/2, and liked what i saw. After that I cut my #2 in half for an alloy of about 95/2.5/2.5. Sure enough, these are the cleanest shooting bullets I've made to date. After a few hundred rounds I got a little lead in the corners of the rifling, but big deal. They shoot better too.

    One thing that I find odd is the chart Lee has in their manual, and sends with their hardness tester. I mean really, you wont get accuracy in a 44 mag with anything less than linotype? I have to call BS, that chart is not worth the paper it's printed on.

    I've since modified my Henry to feed the 31-120K (.35" nose length) when crimped in the groove, but accuracy is still topped out at about 1.5" at 50 yards. Maybe that's all I can do with open sights. I've tried with blue dot, AA #7, lil gun, and H110. So far the best has been 6.2 gr of Blue dot. I can go higher in the rifle, but at 6.5 gr, they start to get sticky in the handgun (this is more a problem of the handgun, not necessarily over pressure).

    Back to the new "SSK" bullets, I still have more testing to do, but so far has promise. I shot 3 shot groups, and all had 2 touching and 1 farther away. The same day I sized these, I also sized some 190 gr 38 cal SSK bullets, and 44 cal 320 gr SSK bullets, and the strange thing I found with all 3 was that they seemed to size crooked. By that I mean that you can look at the front driving band, and one side is noticeably more crushed than the other (which often isn't even touched). I have been using a flat top punch, which until now, had not noticed a problem. The only other top punch I have was much too small to fit over the nose of even the 32 cal SSK's. I have to wonder if I had sized them perfectly, I wouldn't have all 3 holes touching. As for load data, the problem with this design is that it takes up a bunch of space. Looking back, I should have made it with a .35" nose, and maybe just skipped the gas check. Because of that the only powder that I think will will be appropriate is H110. LIL gun is too bulky, and anything faster will be no benefit. That said, I loaded from 9 grains, up to 11 grains. At 11 grains, the bullets would not seat fully unless the case was exactly 1.2" long. Being as most of mine are a hair shorter, I stopped at 10.5 gr. At 10.5 gr, it was plenty safe, but only provided about 1420 fps from the rifle. I'll load a handful up at 10.5 gr to really check accuracy, anything less had un-burned powder. It's too early to call it, but I am having second thoughts about the design. As it is now, I'm actually thinking about something more similar to the sledgehammer. I am beginning to think gas checks are not worth it for the added expense and effort to put them on for this application. I've got another bullet I drew on mountain molds website. This one a 135 grain RNFP with .35 nose length, and wide driving bands. I feel a lot better about that design, but who knows. Maybe when i get those SSK's to size straight they may shoot amazing.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by megasupermagnum; 03-13-2018 at 08:13 PM.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougader View Post
    A group buy on a 135-140 grain Sledgehammer mould from Mihec just closed on Single Actions, but there's another open for 130 grain solid and 123 to 126 grain hp's. I'm in on the 2nd one.

    http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...ehammer-closed



    http://singleactions.proboards.com/t...-mjolnir-group
    dougader, did you get that group buy mold and if so what are the results? Thanks

  19. #19
    Boolit Man wildcatter's Avatar
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    I got it and the only issue I have in the GP-100 is very compressed loads of mmp powder to get the results I like cause flattening of the bullet nose when seating. But performance and accuracy make me smile. This gun has one chamber that won't plat with the other 6 as is seen in every group. The powder is some old surplus powder I have that is very close to H-110, and all were loaded with Federal 205M small rifle match primers, sorry for the wrong description on the targets.
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    Last edited by wildcatter; 12-11-2018 at 04:14 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Thanks a lot for that info. If 32 S&W long can get over 1200 fps with a very similar bullet I want to, the 327 federal should really get them moving. Are these loads you worked up yourself? I've got plenty of manuals with all the older 32's, and none seem to go over 115 grain. I found a thread of a person who got a 150 gain cast bullet to 1125 fps with 2400 in a handgun with good accuracy.
    Yes, my bullet designs from Accurate, loads developed in my Colt revolvers and The Infamous Bunny Gun by John Taylor:

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check