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Thread: 327 federal heavy bullets

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by cwlongshot View Post
    OK. YES! I have some HPs but would need to trim cases to use them at crimp. THANK YOU!!

    I thought we traded a 45 bullet. Did we?


    I am still contemplating the mold. But its a good bet Ill be adding it to the “collection”

    CW
    Yes, you sent me the 215 grain 38 caliber SWC, along with a few other samples. They worked great in the 357 maximum.

    Those hollow points should work well deep seated. Even If you don't have a crimp groove, that's a lot of bearing surface inside the case to hold on.

  2. #42
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    I'm just about ready to play with this cartridge. On order is a Freedom Arms 97 in 327, MP Sledgehammer GC mold, big Midway order, and a Trijicon SRO 1 MOA dot in a Freedom Arms mount.

    I figured I'd start with the heavy hollowpoint as I'm told that the FA cylinder will accept it with some room to spare, and I've always had good luck with heavy for caliber bullets. The Sledgehammer will be PC only (it's what I do) and I hope the Sage's GC aren't too much of a PITA to install. No Bluedot around here, but I have many pounds of H110, HS6, 4227, Universal, and a few other pistol powders.

    Looking forward to a new adventure with a loud little high maintenance toy. What the heck, I am married to a good looking redhead anyway so I ain't scared....

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHDeal View Post
    I'm just about ready to play with this cartridge. On order is a Freedom Arms 97 in 327, MP Sledgehammer GC mold, big Midway order, and a Trijicon SRO 1 MOA dot in a Freedom Arms mount.

    I figured I'd start with the heavy hollowpoint as I'm told that the FA cylinder will accept it with some room to spare, and I've always had good luck with heavy for caliber bullets. The Sledgehammer will be PC only (it's what I do) and I hope the Sage's GC aren't too much of a PITA to install. No Bluedot around here, but I have many pounds of H110, HS6, 4227, Universal, and a few other pistol powders.

    Looking forward to a new adventure with a loud little high maintenance toy. What the heck, I am married to a good looking redhead anyway so I ain't scared....
    It's really not that loud, especially with these heavy bullets. I don't think I've seen a Freedom Arms on this website yet, but they have been offered in 327 for a while. It should be a fantastic shooter. You would hope so for what they cost. Sage's gas checks work great, they are all I use anymore. The shank on these is the same size as any other 30 caliber bullet, they go on just as easy. Lots of guys like the MP sledgehammer. I've never tried it, as I have too many bullets that weight already. I never liked 4227 that much, but don't let that stop you. H110 is every bit as good here as any other magnum handgun.

  4. #44
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    It wasn't cheap, but I have 3 other FA's so I knew going in. If I had picked up a Single Seven, I'd have probably spent some more $$ on it before I was happy. Every RBH here has been customized to some degree or another and finding one of the good Smith's with an open slot isn't quick or cheap. I've never been unhappy with a FA yet and don't think I'll be with the 97. What added quite a bit of $$ was that I do not have any 32 cal stuff at all. That's not the case anymore.

    I highly doubt I'll use 4227 here as it is so bulky. H110 is my favorite revolver powder period with HS6 next in line. I don't doubt they'll both shine in the 327 with that long heavy bullet.

    The only GC's I've ordered have come from Sage's. Probably bought more than 15K of them over the last 5 years. I mostly have used Gators, but have some aluminum too. I ordered a few thousand of Sage's and Gators in .015" and .017" to see what works best. Thanks for the information that they'll be fine in the 327. I knew the 30 caliber was the correct size, but have read they can be tight. Better tight than loose, but not "get the hammer" tight...

  5. #45
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    I didn't even realize they made different thickness. I tossed the bag they came in, and don't know how thick they are. I'll try measuring. I also have their "303" tall checks that work very well, and they are .017". I would start with the .017" thick, as their .015" is advertised for a max bullet size of .312".

  6. #46
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    I didn't know about the thickness either until I started getting ready to leap into the 327. All of my other GC's are what they are (357, 44, 45) with no thickness choices that I'm aware of.

    I got some of each thickness and thought about the 303's, but didn't get any of them. I also didn't get any of the aluminum (I prefer the copper anyway).

  7. #47
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    Yeah, aluminum gas checks seem like a false economy to me. You save about half a cent per bullet. Gas checks cost money, but the big cost to me is the time it takes to put them on. If I'm spending that time, I want the best.

  8. #48
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    I REALLY LIKE those 303 tall checks!!! But by and large Gators are what I order too.

    I have started checking my bullets (that take a check) BEFORE PC. Wanna do more extensive testing but they are easier to install and overall are a better instal so should be more consistently accurate.
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  9. #49
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    I got the Redding taper crimp die today. WOW NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE!!

    Im not a huge fam of Hornady dies and really dislike how they cut the stem for crimping. This fixed that issue 100%!

    Loaded up thirty 150g loads fifteen 135g loads and five 140HP loads.

    CW
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  10. #50
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    Well I cast with the Sledgehammer today. Cast about 130 or so. I used a few culls to measure with as I was opening up the Lee .311" bullet sizing die and the other 125 I PC'd. Fought the Sage and Gator GC's. My shank ended up @ .292" with the PC. I have PC'd after installing GC's before but don't really like to (I will if I have to though).

    I used a worn out 5/16" bit that was beveled on the back to open the checks up. This created a concave in the checks. Not ideal, but the concave was removed by sizing, more or less. I have access to a machinist friend that can make me a version of the NOE gas check expander as NOE is out of stock for the die.

    Annealing the checks is next as it won't hurt. Ain't this fun...

    On another note, has anyone used HS6 in the 327? Just curious as I have much luck with all of my other revolver calibers.

  11. #51
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    That's unfortunate. I've got a couple molds that cast the shank a bit too large, but all my high end Accurate, NOE, and Arsenal molds cast spot on. I do not yet own an MP mold. Make sure it's not out of round, indicating the mold wasn't closed properly.

    I have used HS-6 in 327, although never with a heavy bullet. I don't see why it wouldn't work. I was never all that impressed with it with light bullets or in any other caliber. I'm going to assume you can crimp in the crimp groove with your model 97. I wouldn't discount 4227. You can't get enough in to be dangerous, which some consider a plus. Based on similar bullets, you would be looking at about 12 grains, maybe 12.5 grains max that would fit. It's nowhere near H110, but that should provide respectable performance. Some people have found fantastic accuracy with 4227 in handguns. I have not, but that does not mean anything.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    Yes, you sent me the 215 grain 38 caliber SWC, along with a few other samples. They worked great in the 357 maximum.

    Those hollow points should work well deep seated. Even If you don't have a crimp groove, that's a lot of bearing surface inside the case to hold on.
    Loaded up five last night. Nope no good nose diameter too great at cyl throats. I can push in but takes a bit more and is even force so I know it’s pal dis issue not a “lump” or something.

    Not big deal, I also made a dummy in a 32/20 and it’s just fine loaded to the crimp
    Groove.

    CW
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  13. #53
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    To get back to the original purpose of this thread, I need to ask what constitutes a “heavy bullet?” Some folks seem to think of anything over 115 grains in any of the 32/327s as being heavy, while others seem to be reaching into the 130 grain + range. I have not been able to find any published data (from manufacturers) for bullets over about 118 grains, and even using my NOE bullets at 125 grains involves extrapolation and estimation.

    Sooooo... to the OP, what range would you quantify as “heavy weight” for the 327 FM? Second, does anybody have any pressure tested loads for bullets running 125, 130, or 135 grain (or heavier) that fit available chamber lengths of the 327s out there? Third, what bullet moulds are some of you using to get those heavy bullets? I’ve personally set the 125 grain bullets out of my NOE 314008 PB as the upper limit available to me as it just about fills up my custom stainless K-frame chambers to their upper limit.

    This has been a very informative and worthwhile thread. Let’s keep it going with specific on-topic information about heavy bullets for the 327 and the powder charges to drive them.

    Regards,
    Froggie
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  14. #54
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    I appreciate the information.

    No, the bullets aren't out of round and the mold closes as it should. The gas check shank is just a little fat and all the 30 cal checks I have run a little skinny. As I'm likey to do, after I cast those few I got busy PCing. I'll have to cast some more so I can measure before I PC. Patience is a virtue or something like that.

    I've read on another forum where a couple guys that have the mold stated where the copper GC's are a tight fit. It seems it was across the board with a copper check. Sage's even put in 50 aluminum checks as they probably guessed from my order I was "looking" for something.

    I'll get this figured out even if I have to use the NOE expander. I will anneal 500 or so of the Sage's. 015" checks. It's not really unfortunate as little hiccups tend to bring out creativity in an otherwise easy task. My shooting partner is close to a genius and while he won't admit it, likes these issues (that and his son runs CNC lathes, mills, water jets, laser engravers, etc.). As long as I keep him supplied with MP Molds hollowpoints he's good...

    I'll do a work up with at least HS6 and H110. Just looking for starting points.

  15. #55
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    For the heavy boolit for the 327 , for the ones that needs GC would you use the GC of a 30 cal for it or not.
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    To get back to the original purpose of this thread, I need to ask what constitutes a “heavy bullet?” Some folks seem to think of anything over 115 grains in any of the 32/327s as being heavy, while others seem to be reaching into the 130 grain + range. I have not been able to find any published data (from manufacturers) for bullets over about 118 grains, and even using my NOE bullets at 125 grains involves extrapolation and estimation.

    Sooooo... to the OP, what range would you quantify as “heavy weight” for the 327 FM? Second, does anybody have any pressure tested loads for bullets running 125, 130, or 135 grain (or heavier) that fit available chamber lengths of the 327s out there? Third, what bullet moulds are some of you using to get those heavy bullets? I’ve personally set the 125 grain bullets out of my NOE 314008 PB as the upper limit available to me as it just about fills up my custom stainless K-frame chambers to their upper limit.

    This has been a very informative and worthwhile thread. Let’s keep it going with specific on-topic information about heavy bullets for the 327 and the powder charges to drive them.

    Regards,
    Froggie
    While I don’t have any pressure tested loads, when I was working up my heavy bullet loads, I kept an eye on pressure signs very closely. As you say, it was sort of uncharted territory. I went high enough to split cases and flatten primers, not just flat in the middle, but flat all the way across. I learned alot and settled on a few loads. Here is what I came up with. YMMV.

    First, the disclaimer. I do not claim these loads safe in all guns, or any guns for that matter. This is just my experience. Always start low and work up in your guns, and follow good reloading practices, and always look for signs of pressure.

    The two heavy molds that I used were the mp “mjolnir” and the sledgehammer. The mjolnir flat point weighed 127gns cast of 100% accoww. The sledgehammer weighed 140gns cast of the same. The sledgehammer was a no lube groove mold, and this changed things. I attribute my poor results with this mold to the fact that it was a nlg mold, and raised the pressure considerably. I have since given up on this mold.

    I had good end results with the mjolnir. This takes up all available space in a single seven cylinder. I worked up loads with h110 and 2400. I took both powders high enough to start problems with case life. I settled on 10gns of 2400 and 12.0gns of h110. These loads shoot good in my S7’s, and show a little primer flattening in the center, but the edges are still rounded. I am comfortable that these loads won’t significantly shorten my revolver’s life.

    The sledgehammer mold was purchased to use in my gp100. I got the nlg mold because I wanted the heavier bullet. This bullet showed overpressure signs from the start. I couldn’t get any where near the performance level with this bullet compared to the mjonir. The above loads mentioned were tried with this bullet. Pressure signs showed immediately. I settled on 9.5gns of 2400, and 11.5gns of h110 as the highest I was willing to go with this bullet. I have since stopped using this bullet, and now use the mjolnir in all my 327’s.

    Like I said, these are just my results, and I am sure that the nlg mold had alot to do with my results. I also think that you loose some of the benefits of the 327 cartridge with too heavy of a bullet. Also some people are more “adventurous” when it comes to experimentation than others. All in all, I am happy with my end results. Again, YMMV.

    Edited to add; all bullets were plain base and powder coated. The bullets were sized to .314” which are the throat sizes of both guns. I never experienced any leading of any kind.
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  17. #57
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Sounds like Thor’s Hammer is a pretty close match for my NOE 314008 that drops at a very consistent 125 grains using COWW with just a % or two of tin. I’ve been working with Accurate #7 and a non-canister surplus powder that mimics Accurate #9. I’ve been hesitant to go too hot for rounds to go through my K-frame, but I can always try them out in the “stud hoss,” my Ruger Blackhawk. If they don’t show too much pressure there I feel a little better about putting them in the smaller Smith.

    Froggie
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  18. #58
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    I don't know where to draw the line on "heavy" or "light", they are just words. I look at it as more of a velocity thing. If all you could get was 900 fps from a 115 grain bullet, that would be called "heavy".

    As it is, I consider under 115 grain light. 115-135 grain standard, and 135+ grain heavy. I have not pressure tested any loads. I do have a Pressure Trace II system, I could pressure test loads. I don't know if it would be a good idea to share the data online, but it might be cool to know.

    Being as I have gotten 1300+ FPS with a 148 grain bullet, I want to find just what the limit is. I don't mean that in any dangerous way, I simply want to know how heavy you can go, and have the 1:16" twist handgun stabilize them. As a result, I decided to go ahead with a design I had in my mind for a heavy, WFN bullet. The mold should be on the way from Accurate molds now. It is the 31-167C. It should weigh 165-167 grains. Is it past the practical performance gain? Probably. But I want to know for sure.

  19. #59
    Boolit Master Wheelguns 1961's Avatar
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    This caliber is perfect for experimentation. It is nice to hear the experiences of like minded people.
    Due to the price of primers, warning shots will no longer be given!

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I don't know where to draw the line on "heavy" or "light", they are just words. I look at it as more of a velocity thing. If all you could get was 900 fps from a 115 grain bullet, that would be called "heavy".

    As it is, I consider under 115 grain light. 115-135 grain standard, and 135+ grain heavy. I have not pressure tested any loads. I do have a Pressure Trace II system, I could pressure test loads. I don't know if it would be a good idea to share the data online, but it might be cool to know.

    Being as I have gotten 1300+ FPS with a 148 grain bullet, I want to find just what the limit is. I don't mean that in any dangerous way, I simply want to know how heavy you can go, and have the 1:16" twist handgun stabilize them. As a result, I decided to go ahead with a design I had in my mind for a heavy, WFN bullet. The mold should be on the way from Accurate molds now. It is the 31-167C. It should weigh 165-167 grains. Is it past the practical performance gain? Probably. But I want to know for sure.
    I agree.

    Heavy for caliber is just what it says it is. Anyone with difficulties understanding this has no business experimenting in “no mans land or Uncharted territories”

    I’ll be ordering a Accurate 135g mold soon. My Lyman 311440 is a darn nice bullet I’m kinda surprised no one else has used it and not written about it. It fits the case very well.

    My Velocity is just under 1000fps. Someone with a reloading program can estimate pressures. But it dosent seem unsafe in my Gun. Cases slide out of the cylinder. Recoil is less than factory AM Eagle. I’m happy with a 150g WFP 32 at this velocity. I don’t need to make this something it’s not. I just like heavy bullets.
    My only issue is and Ali day it again, all my primers are lil flatter than I like to see.

    I loaded up a few 115g with Rem and accidentally SR primers to test. I believe that the cup on SPM and SR are same thickness.

    CW
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check