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Thread: 311041 in 30-30 not at all what I expected.

  1. #1

    311041 in 30-30 not at all what I expected.

    Ok so I've worked up a good, accurate 30-30 load with a Lyman 311041. Load cronos at 2000fps bullets cast 50-50 ww and pure, air cooled. Shot a smaller doe yesterday and barely slowed her down. If I hadn't heard the "thump" of it knocking all the air out of her I would never have known she was hit. She moved right down the draw and it took breaking her neck with a second one about 50 yards down the draw to drop her. The post showed the first had hit both lungs after centering a rib on the way in. Second pushed a shattered vertebrae out the exit. 1st shot was about 100 second was about 50.

    I was not really impressed with the performance, with that soft of an alloy I was expecting at the least a little expansion. Am I wrong expecting a bit more? I've shot a lot of deer with jacketed 170 and have never even had one stand up after a hit like that no less not even react. I'm really wondering what I'm missing here. A 170 cast slug should have layed a doe that size low right there no questions asked.
    I'm wondering what you guys think. I know a dead deer = the bullet worked, but I see lots of room for improvement.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master


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    Did you recover the first boolit or did it pass through?

  3. #3
    no both bullets exited so I have no idea what they looked like after impact. I just haven't shot enough deer to know with this bullet to know how it reacts yet. Is a pass though with a quarter sized hemorrhage around the entrance and a 2 inch hemorrhage around a 30 cal exit normal for this alloy and velocity?

  4. #4
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    She was dead on her feet and didn't know it. I've shot a couple of animals (good solid hits) that acted this way. Adrenaline kicks in and they just keep going for a little ways. I would't judge by this one experience with that boolit. I don't think she would have gone very far, but you never know.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master fastdadio's Avatar
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    She was dead. Just not right there. Double lung hit would leave a blood bath both sides in her wake. Tough ole girl.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    I think this was a fluke. Some fight for life harder after being hit than others.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    My cast-bullet deer hunting gets done with Bruce B Soft Points. I whacked a coyote with a Lyman #311041 cast as a BBSP about 3 years ago, entry was 1/2" and exit was 1-1/2". BANG/flop DRT @ 115 yards. No two bullet wounds are alike, but I do like the "Poor Man's Nosler Partition" element of the BBSPs. I just wish I could get a few deer and a lot more song dogs to volunteer for testing. The word seems to have gotten around.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Not a boolit fail. ~1700 at 100. Similar to the 180 I use, tried it on a pig carcass, gut shot, 3', ~1700 fps. Very soft alloy. 30 in ~ 45 out. With the large damage area IMHO it expanded but the hide 'shrunk' around the hole. Hide stretches. Hit another pig (150#) with 40sw, nice hole next to the tail, broke a shoulder and mass of bone & stuff under the gullet. He went another 50 before expiring. On 3 legs he didn't slow down a bit. I need to get to experiment more also but need an invite to property.
    Whatever!

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    I shot a pig with this bullet from my 788 .30-30:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Shot was 45 yards. Hit on the point of the shoulder, there was lots of bright lung blood coming from the entrance wound, but the pig stopped the bullet, which was air cooled and about 12 Bhn. Blood trail ran out in about 100 feet, then it started to rain. I will have to water drop these to get better penetration. I think it would have worked fine on a broadside deer.
    USMC 6638

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


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    My deer this season was a high lung hit, not much of a blood trail and it was a tough tracking job in the dark, thick & sticky S. TX brush. Dead in less than 50 yds but most blood drops smaller than a dried pea. It happens, your boolit and alloy sound good to me.
    Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
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    Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    For expansion, I prefer boolits made from pure lead and some tin.... wheelweight boolits tend to drill right through unless they hit big bones.

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
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    Forster Hollowpointer would be worth a try.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master popper's Avatar
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    Blinddog looks like the one I used. Test shot through the shoulder broke it and I think it exited under the chin. I hit one with that boolit from the BO pistol, found a 3" blood spot on Johnson grass but no pig. Trailing shot on running pig. Alloy was <1% Sb. Really soft. It does wrk on pigs.
    Whatever!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master claude's Avatar
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    Absolutely no snark intended, but I feel you may have exaggerated expectations of what a cast bullet will do. Much as many have the 30 magnum exaggerated expectations.

    Bullet placement is paramount and a high lung shot even with expanding J words often leaves an animal fatally wounded but not down, your vast experience not withstanding.

    The first deer I killed was with a .257 Roberts, a double lung shot at 70 yds. left a fist sized hole on the off side, blood sprays 18 inches across and the deer still ran 65 yards before piling up. Sometimes "stuff" happens, and shuffling the blame to a bullet design or attributing some magical DRT to cast bullets after a questionable shot is where the confusion arises.

    If this has tainted your perception of what cast bullets are all about, the solution is, don't use them, simply because your confidence levels will be compromised.

  15. #15
    Well I can't say as I've ever found that a bigger rifle kills deer any more dead, or that any bullet has magical properties and kills like the finger of god almighty. This is my first year shooting that particular bullet at deer and I was curious as to others experience with that bullet in comparable instances. I don't have the vast knowledge that many of you gentlemen do in the area of terminal ballistics of cast bullets on deer sized game. I think I'll just chalk it up as a fluke until I have a few more killed with it and see.
    Last edited by firebyprolong; 01-09-2018 at 12:53 AM.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master claude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firebyprolong View Post
    Well I can't say as I've ever found that a bigger rifle kills deer any more dead, or that any bullet has magical properties and kills like the finger of god almighty. This is my first year shooting that particular bullet at deer and I was curious as to others experience with that bullet in comparable instances. I don't have the vast knowledge that many of you gentlemen do in the area of terminal ballistics of cast bullets on deer sized game. I think I'll just chalk it up as a fluke until I have a few more killed with it and see.
    ^^^^^^^^^^

    I think you will do well!!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by firebyprolong View Post
    ......... Is a pass though with a quarter sized hemorrhage around the entrance and a 2 inch hemorrhage around a 30 cal exit normal for this alloy and velocity?
    Yes, that would be "normal" performance, especially on a lung shot. Seldom will such a shot, especially if it just passes through the rear lobes of the lungs, result in a DRT deer. Traveling 100 +/- yds after such is not that uncommon as the lungs have to fill so the deer essentially drowns. That's why I seldom make that shot preferring the heart/lung area as it kills quicker.

    I have used the 311041 out of several different cartridges to kill quite a few deer over the last 48 + years. I use COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead and AC'd. I also found a 1/8" HP 3/16" deep increases expansion and thus the terminal effect. As mentioned; a Forster 1/8" HP tool works well for HPing. With the heart/lung shot (on a 150 - 200+ lb deer envision a soccer ball between the front legs low against the brisket and put the bullet through that ball regardless of the angle) at least one front leg will also be crippled. I have seldom had a deer stagger more that 25 yards and go down after such a shot.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    One of the biggest deer I ever shot;blew the top half of the heart out the exit hole.Shot inside 75 yds with an '06 JB running a little over book max.Thing ran down,then uphill,across a cpl wire fences,then hid in the thickest tangle of weeds N brambles.Was slackjaw....

    The same bullet as OP,running around 2200-2400 out of another '06 (tackdriver) as a varmint rig.Then skinned crows and nuisance geese look like you stuffed a M80 firecracker down their throats.Hit at the base of the neck,will usually cut'm in half.

    So,be dang careful putting any preconceptions on terminal ballistics in living tissue.

  19. #19
    Boolit Man
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    Years ago I shot that bullet at 1950 fps out of a Win 94 and killed several deer over a few year period. Alloy was WW water dropped, back when everything you read was harder is better. I can't remember anything that ran over 50 yards, some dropped where they stood. Might be there were some flying fragments after impact with that alloy, heat treated.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    white eagle's Avatar
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    not sure if you have tried this but I will throw it out anyway
    try to use a 16-1 alloy or similar and powder coat it
    the alloy works famously at the velocity I use about 2300
    in a 358 win and I get good expansion with it
    plus you can size and check like normal but don't need to lube
    or you can do like 9.3 says and use a soft point but that is a bit of work
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check