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Thread: 311041 in 30-30 not at all what I expected.

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    .......or you can do like 9.3 says and use a soft point but that is a bit of work.
    It is a little labor-intensive and time-consuming. 20 soft points in a given caliber take about 90-120 minutes' work. The nice thing is that 20 rounds is several game-seasons'-worth of hunting ammo, esp. in states like mine where "One deer per year" is the rubric.

    I have proven to my satisfaction that the SPs target identically downrange to homogenous-alloy castings of the same design launched by identical powder charges. Practice and sight-in ammo is therefor a LOT easier to assemble, and you can stay sharp year-round at nominal cost compared to using factory ammo or jacketed reloads. The down-side for me as a Californian is that I have only one remaining season of deer hunting in which I can use lead bullets in my local Zone. Perhaps by the time lead bullets are outlawed, I will have emigrated to the United States--since CA seems bound & determined upon Secession V.2.0.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    I have shot deer through both lungs with a 150 gr. Jword at 2700 fps and had them run 150 yds. It is not unusual at all for them to run with lung hits. They can cover a lot of ground in the time it takes them to bleed out til they lose consciousness.

  3. #23
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    I think you got good expansion and performance; just a fluke result. I can't believe that a 8-10 bhn lead bullet at the velocity, and exiting, won't give very good performance.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy firebyprolong's Avatar
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    I've had many take off after a good solid hit, I was just a little concerned at the lack of reaction other than to walk away. No running, good placement, standing deer broad side shot. I tucked it right in behind the point of the shoulder just about half way up the ribs. I'm guessing it was just an odd deal but it was odd enough to make me ask you guys. I'm gonna give casting some soft points a try and mabey hp a mold or two and just shoot and see. One zombie deer is not gonna turn me off of this bullet, it kills coyotes way too well. I normally fill 4 deer tags a year so I'll get plenty of chances to use it on another few deer next fall.
    Last edited by firebyprolong; 01-09-2018 at 10:08 PM.

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    To me the true results of your bullet is this.

    Bullet A hit a single rib, went in a .30 caliber, left a large exit hole. Placement was not perhaps ideal. Resulting in a deer that needed a second shot. Shrug. It happens, it happens to most of us in fact.

    Bullet B hit exactly right, blew a chunk of spine out the exit hole. How could you want more than that?

    Both functioned as they should have. Placement was a little off on the first, right on for the second.
    Done any cold shot testing? First round with a cold barrel going a little high and right perhaps???

    Deer is down, and IMO even without the second shot would have been down.

    Sometimes after being shot they run up to 100 yards. Sounds like yours did not get that far.

    If she had dropped before you pulled the trigger. Would that change the way you feel?


    I don't think you have a problem. I think you just need more deer down, and the confidence that brings with it. But that is just what I think.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master

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    I once shot a young doe, about 30 feet, broadside with a 16 ga RemSlugger. A little above the heart, but in and out both lungs. She took off and made about 50 yds before dropping. I would not believe it if I hadn't been there. Big exit holes will help a tad.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    I shot two deer this past fall, both with 357 magnum Rossi 92 and 190 grain wfn's at 1800 fps muzzle velocity. 9 bhn 50/50 alloy, just like you used.

    Both deer were shot at 25 yards and both were hit 30 minutes apart from each other. Both were shot at the same place within a couple of feet of each other, and both were hit pretty much the same as far as impact and exits were concerned, which were broadside lung hits. The first deer was a small/med buck on the heels of a doe, and the second deer was a small/med buck also on that same trail. The first deer ran 70-80 yards, not leaving much of a blood trail. The second deer went maybe 50ish yards and poured blood, including at the moment of impact. Go figure!

  8. #28
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    Maybe you mentioned it, but how was the blood trail?

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy firebyprolong's Avatar
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    I really wish I'd remembered to take a couple of pictures. I got in a hurry to get him butchered in and get out of the rain and just didn't think about it.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've shot 2 deer with the 30.30 & air cooled 165gr 50/50. One deer dropped in it's tracks at 92 yards & the other was about 40 yards yet ran about 70 yards before dropping. Both were lung shots.

    So far I have killed 4 deer with air cooled 50/50 lead out of the 30.06, 30.30 & 44 mag. Out of the 4 only the one I wrote about above didn't drop in it's tracks. Sometimes a deer has a lot of will to live & doesn't know it is dead on it's feet.
    USAF (Retired) 1985-2005

  11. #31
    In Remembrance

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    I killed a doe this year with the same load. DRT at 50 yards. Several years ago I shot a buck following some does at 30 yards with a 270 and nosler balistic tips. Hit him 3 times in the heart lung area and my nefew shot him with a 30-30 at point plank range. We trailed him from where I hit him the first time to where we found him across two fences and 400+ yards. His insides were messed up good. Go figure. Sometimes they drop, sometimes they don't.
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  12. #32
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    Until they put a Taser into a bullet, you won't be able to rely on instant stops with cardiovascular hits. From my minimal observations, even if you shoot perfectly, it typically seems to take about ten seconds for the brain to realize the o-2 supply is gone. Unless you hit brain, spine, or heavy, weight-bearing bone, you're going to be waiting for the pipes to drain.

    This is pretty much why I've given up on hunting at the dusk end of the day. Finding them at 7 AM is much simpler than finding them at 7 PM
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have shot quite a few deer and seen even more shot with the 7.62x39 by my daughters & nephews using cast boolits. Boolits were either a 150 grain Ranch Dog, a LBT 165 grain LFN i had cut years ago or a NOE clone of the 311440, all have a wide meplat and were running between 1800 - 2000fps. None of the deer shot with these boolits dropped on the spot, all were dead inside 100 yards and every deer shot at was recovered, but some of them were a real struggle to find due to scarce blood trails. What I did find was there is a definite advantage to using the these same boolits cast with pure lead soft points, definitely seem to hit harder with much more tissue damage & blood trails. The smaller .30 bullets seem to really benefit from soft pointing, jump up to .35/.348 bore sizes and the difference doesn't seem to be as great.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master pls1911's Avatar
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    A proper bullet placement on all critters has always provided a bang flop in my experience.
    By proper placement, I mean about 1/3 down from the top shoulder profile in line with the leg....clears both shoulders, and usually the spine as well.
    The critter goes DOWN.
    Heat treated 30 caliber slugs shot at 1800-1900 fps all work equally well when properly placed: Lyman 31141, RD/NOE 165, SAECO #316, and yep, even the pointy RCBS 165-Sil from a Contender or Savage 340 or old Spanish Mauser .308.
    Expansion is not the issue.
    Penetration is certainly not the issue.
    Placement counts.
    Salvaging old Marlins is not a pasttime...it's a passion

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by pls1911 View Post
    A proper bullet placement on all critters has always provided a bang flop in my experience.
    By proper placement, I mean about 1/3 down from the top shoulder profile in line with the leg....clears both shoulders, and usually the spine as well.
    The critter goes DOWN.
    Heat treated 30 caliber slugs shot at 1800-1900 fps all work equally well when properly placed: Lyman 31141, RD/NOE 165, SAECO #316, and yep, even the pointy RCBS 165-Sil from a Contender or Savage 340 or old Spanish Mauser .308.
    Expansion is not the issue.
    Penetration is certainly not the issue.
    Placement counts.
    Placement certainly is most important. However, sometimes the critter just doesn't know it is dead. I saw a young mule deer buck take two rounds of .30-06 FMJ in the boiler room. One went through lungs. The other through one lung and heart. He walked around like nothing had happened for about 30 seconds, then flopped over dead.

    BTW, the issue of using FMJ and not soft points was resolved at a local level decades ago. Anyone bring it up now is just annoying. You weren't there and you don't know the facts or details.

  16. #36
    Boolit Buddy rr2241tx's Avatar
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    Congratulations on your first cast boolit deer! Sometimes they'll drop like a rock, other times not so much; placement is king. I recently shot a nice mature buck with a 30:1 550 gr round nosed 45-70 and had much the same (non)response from him. Almost his entire blood volume was clotted in his lungs when he was field dressed.
    rr2241tx
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  17. #37
    Cast Hunter

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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I think this was a fluke. Some fight for life harder after being hit than others.
    Totally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hodges View Post
    I have shot deer through both lungs with a 150 gr. Jword at 2700 fps and had them run 150 yds. It is not unusual at all for them to run with lung hits. They can cover a lot of ground in the time it takes them to bleed out til they lose consciousness.
    I have had similar experiences with J-bullets. Adrenaline can be a wonderful drug.

    I've killed numerous deer and hogs with .30 and .35 cal cast bullets and the vast majority went 0-15 yards with a behind the shoulder hit. A couple of over-achievers went 50-70 yards and piled up. Flat nose and round nose cast bullets tend to create significant wound cavitation in soft lung tissue. Death is usually pretty quick.
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  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    It was the shot placement, not the boolit.

    I've had the same thing happen numerous times. And that with larger, more powerful cartridges.
    Just this past fall, I was hunting with a Savage M220F, a rifled barrel 20ga slug gun. I made a similar hit on a 7pt ~145lb buck at a later lased 105yds. Slug broke a rib in, rib out. After ~150yds, blood trail petered out. I looked for 3hours trying to find it. No luck. Hunted same spot 3days later. After sunrise, the 40 vultures showed me where he laid. About 250yds, and 90degrees left of direction I last saw him run. A .54cal soft lead slug at 1,400m/v. Even a mighty.375 Ruger with a 250gr Sierra GameKing at 2,850fps did the thing.
    Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check