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Thread: Airgun pellets range scrap.. Good for HBWC?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Airgun pellets range scrap.. Good for HBWC?

    As the title says, Is airgunpellet scrap suitable for low velocity HBWC?
    I ḿ waiting for a HBWC Mihec H&G 50 mold, to be used for soft 25 meter bullseye shooting and just got the opportunity to buy about 200 lb of pellet scrap from my local recycling yard for about 60 cent/lb

    As I understand it, these will be if not pure, pretty close to and super soft lead.
    Good to go as is, or do I need to spice it up some?

    Will probably use Vithavouri N310 or 320 powder, and velocity at about 650-700ft/sec

    Thanks for your imput
    Swede

  2. #2
    Boolit Master brewer12345's Avatar
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    I word probably add a percent or two of tin to the mix, but otherwise that should do it. I am waiting for the solid version of the same mold and plan to use range scrap with a couple percent of tin.
    When you care enough to send the very best, send an ounce of lead.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master quail4jake's Avatar
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    200 lb of airgun pellet scrap? I'm trying to figure how many rounds of Feinwerkebau 4,5mm pellets that is?! Good on ya mate, I think pellets are swaged Pb so 2.5% Sn in the mix would make 40:1 which gives me BHN 7 and I would use that for a DEWC @ about 600 fps. I don't know about a HBWC...

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    The British temporarily went from the standard 12-1 to nearly pure lead (99%) as an emergency tin-saving measure in WWI for their hollow base .455 Webley bullets at arond 625FPS, and it's worth noting that the internal measurements of the guns typically have throats that are SMALLER than the bore, so the bullet undergoes one upsize, one downsize, and a second upsize on firing. I've used 40-1 for with good results at that speed, so I don't think you're likely to rupture anything at target match velocities. . .

    . . .but I think you might add tin to ease mold fillout. I think if you're actually competing, you'd probably want to tinker with mix, number of lube grooves filled, and whether or not the gun prefers the hollow base over solid. If you're just having fun, go with what makes it easier on yourself.

    200 POUNDS of airgun pellets? I don't think I've ever been in the presence of 200 POUNDS of airgun pellets. . .That's a LOT of 10M!
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub
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    I have found that airgun pellets are almost pure lead in terms of melting point, hardness and appearance of newly hardened melt.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master


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    I have used recovered pellets for casting 38 HB WCs and other bullets for sub-sonic use. Agree that adding 1-2% tin will help give much better fillout and quality bullets.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. Got plenty of tin, so that's not a problem to ad some.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Just as a counter point, I was at my grandsons air rifle range and noticed one of the range officers had been smelting lead. I asked out of curiosity was he casting bullets with the lead, he said there was too much zinc in the lead for that, he sold it to a guy who cast fishing weights with them. I looked, the ingots had a definite crystal formation on top, not what I would have expected for pure lead. Conversely, the backstop for the air rifle pellets was galvanized sheet steel, but I don't think much zinc was missing from the backstop. Those kids could SHOOT! Not much impact area, all shots were well grouped. There were 8 to 12 kids on each of 12 teams who fired once a week on the range for just about every week of the school year, 35-50 shots per kid. Lots of kids with lots of lead.

    Steve

  9. #9
    Boolit Master BNE's Avatar
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    I have no idea what the alloy used for the pellets in Sweden is composed of, however I have performed some XrF tests on pellets in the USA. If memory serves, both brands were 1% Sb and 99% Pb. The above comments about adding Tin are accurate.
    I'm a Happy Clinger.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    This is scrap from an indoor range at the city sportscenter, used by two clubs. The pellets they use are matchgrade like RWS and H&N.
    Both clubs runs a great youth program as well as hosting big competitions and leagues for air guns, both rifle and handgun.

    So a good source of lead.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub D-RIG's Avatar
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    I smelt my airgun pellets and my scrap swaging wire
    and pour them into ingots for future use .
    I get a BHN of 7-7.5 from this lead .

  12. #12
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    I've coached JROTC air rifle teams a while now, when we used lead pellets, melted some for muzzle loader bullets and as near as I can tell, it's pure lead and works well in muzzle loaders.

    Last year, we were mandated to use non lead pellets. Lots of problems but it is what it is. The pellets are made in the Chech Republic and are said to be a "tin alloy" Much, much harder than lead and because they are harder and lighter, we have problems with them bouncing out of the pellet traps which were designed for lead. A few occasionally make it back to the firing line, gotta make sure the kids keep the eye pro on.

    I've been keeping the spent ones in a coffee can, I have maybe five pounds accumulated. When I get enough, I'll try casting something with them and see what they do.

    I only mention the non lead pellets because they seem to be becoming more and more prevalent among youth shooting teams and you may have some in the range scrap you're using.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    You should be fine using the pellet lead as is for the mihec hbwc's. I typically get this (+/-) every year from my pellet trap.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    I've always tossed then in the pouring pot and turned them into hbwc's. I water drop the hbwc's I cast simply because the hb's stand a better chance of not deforming/getting dinged.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    I like the mihec hbwc molds and cast hbwc's for the 32cal's/35cal's/41cal's/44cal's/45cal's. The only time I've ever found any need to add anything to a alloy when casting with them is when I didn't get a good fillout. You want crisp edges on the bottom ring of your hbwc or accuracy will suffer. Just got done casting some 32cal button nosed wc's and mihec hbwc's. You want the bases to fill out and have a flat wide ring on the base.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    I'd try casting some bullets with plain pellets and see if you get a good fill out before you start adding anything. If you don't try to make big batches of alloy at 1 time (around #100/40 kilo) for bullet consistency. Consistency ='s same bullet shape/weight/reaction the same to pressure.

    Don't know what you plan on using for lube, I pc all my wc/hbwc's anymore. They're cleaner burning (no smoke indoors), the firearm stays cleaner longer & it takes a lot longer for a carbon ring to form in the cylinders with pc'd bullets. Just pc's a batch of 32cal wc's hbwc's.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Enjoy your mihec mold and the quality range time you'll get from the bullets you cast with it.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input.
    I've just finished making ingots out of the pellets, ended up with taking 100lb of the scrap to start with. Will get the ingots scanned on Monday for the alloy composition.

    As soon as I get my mold I'll start developing testloads and test different lubes and pc.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Don't get too caught up with the alloy composition thing. All's you're really after is a quality repeatable bullet with an excellent base. I've shot/used nothing but range scrap for decades with good enough results to keep the bullets in the x-ring. I make up the range scrap in 100# batches, consistence is the name of the game.

    You should take a hard look at pc'ing your bullets. It's so much easier finding accurate loads with the pc'd bulllets. You're not trying to match the lube/amount of lube to the alloy hardness (obturation) and the load (pressure) that expands the bullet + pushes the outward and forward to seal the bbl and protect the bore from leading. That's why the swaged hbwc's with the entire body lubed do well. Some testing I did with the mihec 44cal 220gr hbwc. I lubed the bottom lube groove, both lube grooves, 45/45/10, lube in grooves + 45/45/10 along with seating them flush, crimped in the top lube groove, etc.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    At the end of the day the full body lubed bullets ran circles around the bullets with lube in the lube grooves only. You should also use the lube grooves as crimp grooves testing different seating depths. Getting the hbwc's out into the cylinders (crimped in the top lube groove) shot bugholes with several different loads.

    I've shot a lot of the mihec hbwc's either pc'd or with a coat of tumble lube (45/45/10). Why I went with pc is it's a lot cleaner. It's not that I don't like to get dirty or clean firearms. The pc'd bullets create less carbon then the fossil fuel lube. Less carbon ='s it takes longer to form the accuracy destroying carbon ring that forms in the cylinders. What a revolver looks like after a 200 round range session with pc'd bullets.
    [IMG][/IMG]

    Quality range time for extended periods of time is the name of the game.

    Just something to think about. Range scrap & pc ='s bugholes, 6-shot groups @50ft with the revolver pictured above.
    [IMG][/IMG]

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I would expect it to work ok. I would cast a few before I added any alloy. My biggest problem was getting the skirts to fill out. Adding a little tin would help on that.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy Swede 45's Avatar
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    Got my ingots xrayed today..
    98.54% lead 1.3%tin and 0.16% iron (rust from my pot?)

    And while the yard guy xrayed my ingot I found a rack of printing spacers.. Grabbed one and got that one xrayed as well.
    So, I brought back home 45lb of 83%Pb, 13.5%Sb, 3%Sn .. for .60 cent/lb as well! Yay!
    (Antimon rich alloys are rare to find here..)
    Last edited by Swede 45; 01-15-2018 at 01:53 PM. Reason: adding..

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check