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Thread: "I don't get no respect." Good guns with overlooked virtues

  1. #61
    Boolit Man

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    Gents,

    In my opinion, the tiny North American Arms mini-revolvers deserve much more respect than they get. They are so small that they can be difficult to shoot accurately, but the guns themselves seem capable of remarkably precise shooting. The problem is usually the shooter, and a lack of practice. But, the revolvers' .22 rimfire ammo makes practice easy and cheap.

    Some of the models in the large NAA stable of choices are easier to shoot than others, and I find the NAA "Black Widow" model a beautiful, rugged, accurate gem. With it's relatively large grip and decent drift-adjustable sights, my Black Widow easily produces well-centered, 3-inch, five-shot groups, offhand at 15 yards. I'd feel very greedy and unappreciative asking for much more from an 8-ounce, 2-inch-barreled handgun that disappears in a jeans pocket.

    It makes a great little "always there" companion piece for plinking or pot-shooting. And, while I wouldn't recommend it for defensive use, it's hard to argue with the concept that "any gun in the pocket beats a bigger one left at home."

    Happy trails,

    -- Cary Gunn --
    Last edited by Cary Gunn; 01-20-2018 at 02:40 AM.

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    I would love to see NAA bring out something like the old S&W I frame.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master Walkingwolf's Avatar
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    I would love for a NAA .32 pocket revolver.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    I had an Naa 22mag that put 4 out of 5 bullets sideways at 5 steps. Seems I maybe should give another one a try. May have been a fluke.
    My vote is the older Rossi revolvers, I have a 511 that actually shoots better than the m63 smith I used to own. I came across a m69 in 32SWL, 3 inch and seems a copy of the I frame. It also shoots fairly well even with undersized bullets, it needs .314 and I only had .312s loaded. Gonna see what it will really do when it's a bit warmer. Will see how my 31-1 does with .314 bullets too so they can share ammo. A side note, it's throats are closer to each other in size than any of my Rugers and all but my 1919 vintage k frame. They did (?do) a decent job of machining and fit.
    Last edited by rking22; 02-01-2018 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Wrong model#
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  5. #65
    Boolit Bub
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    My choice for a good gun that gets no respect is my Smith & Wesson SW9VE otherwise known as the Sigma. I've had mine for 6 years. I was looking for a cheap 9mm pistol at the time and the Sigma was about half of what new Glock cost. Since then I've shot about 8,000 rounds through it, almost all cast reloads. It's handled 150 grain semi-wadcutters without a hitch and once on a whim I loaded full 38 wadcutters and got three in a row to feed.

    My Sigma has been reliable and accurate. It routinely shoots better than many much more expensive polymer framed pistols and its long heavy trigger pull is smooth and not unlike that of a double action revolver.

  6. #66
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    The S&W SD series is just a Sigma with different looks and somewhat better trigger pull. I think the SD is probably the best bargain in handguns anywhere: a Smith & Wesson 9mm or .40 auto pistol in stainless with two mags for $300.00 or even less if you shop around. I'm thinking about getting an SD40 to keep company with my Glock 22.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I agree and concur with MFGordon on the Sigma Series pistols, I Had a 9 MM Sigma that was an excellent, reliable pistol. I shot a possible on our qualification course with it, which so impressed a co-worker that he had to buy it, so I sold it for more than I paid. I would gladly buy another one.
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  8. #68
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    The NAA mini with the folding grip is just flat out neat. The .44 Charter is good- especially the original 3" non shrouded ones. The m39 Smith is very respected in my world and the SV9E is a hell of good gun for the money.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  9. #69
    Boolit Master
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    I used to have one of the NAA .22LR mini's. When I was doing police work, I used to volunteer for those in training to practice traffic stops, etc. I would wear it like a necklace and we would see if anyone would find it during the weapons pat down search. Amazingly enough, everyone missed it too. it was a good lesson for them to learn about it. None of the trainees even knew such a gun existed before then either.

  10. #70
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I would say any ordinary lever action rifle, like a Win 94, Marlin 336, or Mossberg 464. Especially if it is in 30-30. Cause it can't do 'nuffin. Gotta be a 12 gauge or an ought-six bolt action.

    I have always been impressed by the everyday accuracy and utility of these guns. But everybody is after that sub-MOA group that these rifles just can't manage it is said. Never mind that most of these folks can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside it unless they have it on a lead sled or bipod.

  11. #71
    Boolit Grand Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Some lever actions will shoot sub-MOA, my cheapo Marlin Glenfield 30 is one of them. .30 WCF is a very accurate cartridge, the half mag tube and lack of barrel bands on this particular rifle really help.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, 6.5 Creedmoor, .30 WCF, .308 WCF, .45-70.

  12. #72
    Boolit Master


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    I agree with Crash about the little Charter 44s. Had one of the stainless models in a 3" heavy barrel that was my sleeping bag gun on many mountain trips. I put a cylinder full of the Elmer Keith heavy load through it, to verify it's strength. But, as happens a little too often, I sold it to a friend who then moved away. That was maybe 20 years ago and I have never seen another one like it for sale. It had the sorta double action only hammer that was grooved on top for hand cocking. No hammer spur to catch inside a sleeping bag.

    Tonight, at our gun collectors meeting, a buddy sold me his stainless target model with a 4" barrel. I verified the barrel to be one piece, not shrouded, and checked the lockup. No Python has ever locked up tighter than this little 44. So, here it sits, ready for it's in-briefing tomorrow, consisting of cleaning and throat measuring. I think it will like that new NOE RG4 mould in a 215 grain hollow base wadcutter.

    Another use for a small big bore revolver is as a game retrieval tool. I used to load 44 shot loads using the Speer shot caps for coaxing a downed quail out from under a cactus. These little beauties make good snake guns, too.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master smkummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curioushooter View Post
    I would say any ordinary lever action rifle, like a Win 94, Marlin 336, or Mossberg 464. Especially if it is in 30-30. Cause it can't do 'nuffin. Gotta be a 12 gauge or an ought-six bolt action.

    I have always been impressed by the everyday accuracy and utility of these guns. But everybody is after that sub-MOA group that these rifles just can't manage it is said. Never mind that most of these folks can't hit the broadside of a barn from inside it unless they have it on a lead sled or bipod.
    Curioushooter beat me to the punch. I was going to say pretty much the same thing. For years it seemed every pawn shop or used gunshop had these on the racks. Just like the S&W 10, it doesn’t mean they are bad guns. It means they are good useful popular guns that for whatever reason ended up for sale. If it had to do it, a 30-30 would kill anything on this continent with a fast follow up if needed. And remember during the last ammo shortage, 30-30, 243, 270 and some other non-military calibers, was still on the shelves.

  14. #74
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I came late to levers, I just never really "got" them.

    Then one day there they were at the pawn shop. A pair of Win 94's in .30-30.

    In the end I bought both for just under 1000$.

    The "good" one, the pre 64 WWII era built in 44 has a badly tapered shot out bore with a bad constriction at the rear sight dovetail. And IS going to go to JES one of these days to get bored into a .35-.30-30.

    The cheap one, the post 64 cross bolt safety angled eject is a shooter. Stuff that tube full of flat nose rounds and tear it up. I have a neoprene sling on mine. Lever is wrapped with camo paracord. One of the first things I discovered was you need to work that lever with authority.

    That was a little hard on the backs of my knuckles, hence the wrap.

    The more I have shot and played with it the more I see its potential.

    I agree, most Win 94's in dirty thirty don't get no respect. And they should. They have been over the hill and down the river and back. They get that second, third, 4th shot faster than anything other than an autoloader.

  15. #75
    Boolit Master curioushooter's Avatar
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    I've gotten 2 MOA groups consistently out of a Mossberg 464 off a bench with scope. Usually have some in the tube, and 464s have barrel bands. I am no sure that it really matters much. I had a Marlin 1894 with a hanger front and no band and it shot worse. I think the rigid nature of 30-30 factor ammo as far as OAL goes and the non-throats of these 30-30s go a long way towards their everyday accuracy.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check