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Thread: "I don't get no respect." Good guns with overlooked virtues

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    "I don't get no respect." Good guns with overlooked virtues

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    As the title suggests, this thread is for those guns that for various reasons were snubbed or sneered at by various cognoscenti over the years, but which had pretty good qualities. Sort of like the sweet natured lady whose plain appearance concealed the fact that she was a neat person and a great cook.

    My entrant is the venerable S&W M&P, the original, not the plastic pretender. Although it was dependable, reliable and capable of excellent accuracy, the Model 10 as it was known in the later part of the 20th century fell into disrepute. Not powerful enough, didn't have adjustable sights, didn't hold enough rounds: to hear some folks tell it, the poor sap whose department or finances restricted him to carrying one had simply better make arrangements with a mortician, for he was surely doomed if he got into a gun fight.

    My take is that there is no better weapon for the non-dedicated firearms user.
    Yeah, it's "only" a 38, but a +P 125 grain load or a 158 grain FBI load will get the job done. The examples often given were of tragic failures, but guess what? There are no magic boolits or guns. And for every every officer whose life was lost through his gun failing to stop his attacker, there were scores who made it home because their lowly 38's had done the trick.
    True, it only holds 6 rounds, but 6 is enough, if you can shoot. Missing a bunch more times gets you no more benefit. And those projectiles have to end up some where.
    Also, there is no denying that the manual of arms is simpler than that of the square gun bottom feeders that have replaced them. For the person who doesn't have time, money or inclination to master an autoloader or a hard-kicking magnum, you'd be hard pressed to make a better suggestion.

    And my money is where my mouth is on this one. This pencil barrel, DA only, M-10-5 was formerly owned by the Singapore Police department and Purchased by me for the princely sum of 99 dollars about 23 years ago. It is the gun that protects my home.

    But what guns do you have that deserve better press than they have received?
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    I would have to say, anything in .32 Auto. I have read that John Browning said it was his favorite cartridge. Anybody can learn to shoot this cartridge and it is surprisingly potent with European ammo or smart reloads. Don't even bother worrying about hollowpoints, you aren't gaining anything with them. This cartridge is at its best with a plain FMJ or lead slug at 800-900 fps, where it's mild recoil and good accuracy really shine. This little cartridge typically penetrates quite well for it's size also.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Total agreement with you both. A M10 M&P on my hip and a FN 1910 7.65 in my pocket and I'd walk thru the valley of the shadow of death.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    How about .32 S&W-L revolvers? Very capable and accurate guns that get passed by.
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I will add the Ruger P series autos to your high performance/low respect list. I paid $275 for a used P97 .45 five years ago and it hasn't bobbled yet. I had a P89 that ran the same but it wasn't as accurate as the .45 so I traded it away.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    My S&W 10-8 is one of the last I would ever part with.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master maxreloader's Avatar
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    Unless this is a revolver-only thread I'll enter the Winchester Model 1910 (401wsl/sl)
    Looking for Ideal molds 419181 (44 Evans Long) and 375167 (38-72)
    "Joined Dates" are deceiving if you factor-in "lurk dates."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMC45 View Post
    How about .32 S&W-L revolvers? Very capable and accurate guns that get passed by.
    I agree with EMC45 wholeheartedly! If the 38 special gets no respect, our little I- and J-framed 32 revolvers seem to get active disrespect. I'll keep carrying my little I-frame "Hand Ejector Snub" in 32 S&W Long, and feel well armed, not for doing battle with the hordes (that takes large guns with lot of ammo and preferably lots of friends who also have large guns with lots of ammo to prevail) but for day-to-day threats on the street. Rintinglen is absolutely right about the K-frame service revolver (or even its smaller 5-shot J-frame brother the Chief's Special) being battle proven over the decades to get the job done for seeing that their bearers make it home if said bearers do their job as they should, and the same can be said of the 32s... a whole lot of it is in having a gun at hand that the user can... use! As they used to say at the end of roll call on NYPD Blue, "Be careful out there!"

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    I agree with EMC45 wholeheartedly! If the 38 special gets no respect, our little I- and J-framed 32 revolvers seem to get active disrespect. I'll keep carrying my little I-frame "Hand Ejector Snub" in 32 S&W Long, and feel well armed, not for doing battle with the hordes (that takes large guns with lot of ammo and preferably lots of friends who also have large guns with lots of ammo to prevail) but for day-to-day threats on the street. Rintinglen is absolutely right about the K-frame service revolver (or even its smaller 5-shot J-frame brother the Chief's Special) being battle proven over the decades to get the job done for seeing that their bearers make it home if said bearers do their job as they should, and the same can be said of the 32s... a whole lot of it is in having a gun at hand that the user can... use! As they used to say at the end of roll call on NYPD Blue, "Be careful out there!"

    Froggie
    I would carry my Model 31 snub today and feel perfectly armed. Loaded with RCBS 32-098s over 2.7gr. Bullseye and I'm good. It is a super accurate gun and 6 shots to boot!
    You can miss fast & you can miss a lot, but only hits count.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    I frequently carry my little S&W 637 with 148 grain Lyman wadcutters at 712 fps.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    I just bought this little pair of H&R revolvers. The little nickel plated girl is saying she needs something different. But the little blued one is a smooth shooting nice little gun.

    Now I have SA 1911's, 9mm auto's, but the muzzle blast on those really messes with me for some reason, and the recoil is a bit more than I like.

    That little H&R 732 with the Lee .314 90 gr cast over 2 grains of Red Dot was just a pure pleasure to shoot. And it with a bit of learning it went where I pointed it.

    I have less than 300$ for both guns, plus a little shipping and FFL of course. Still pretty darn reasonable. I bought 500 rounds of new starline .32SW Long brass. Which should last me for a long long time.

    3-4 cents for a small pistol primer, couple of cents for 2 grains of Red Dot (if that) and some 70 of those bullets per pound of lead that I paid maybe a buck and a quarter a pound for.

    That's cheap enough shooting for this penny pincher. I had a blast today at the range, shot 12 through each gun, and put 10 rounds through my little Pheonix Arms HP-22a "car" gun. Which put 10 shots into a 2" circle with my elbow leaning on a sandbag.

    Yeah, life is good. I like those little guys.

  12. #12
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    I have a pair of High Standard Sentinels 22 9 shot revolvers that have been abused and are still accurate.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  13. #13
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    While I do love my SRH .44 mag, and feel happy with a 1911 .45 ACP, in getting to like 9mm pistols. I'm getting older and have neuropathy, so I can't feel too well with my fingers anymore. I may just get a 9mm revolver to accompany my model 19-4 Smith, and just sell my Glock. I found out today that I can no longer disassemble it, because I can't feel what I'm doing.

    Sorry if I got out of line here.
    Tom
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  14. #14
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    I've got to throw out top-break revolvers in general, and the Webleys in particular. The concept was dealt two death blows; first, in the arrival of the autoloader, and second in the somewhat irrational and largely smokeless-driven quest for bigger/faster/harder/farther.

    If not for those two death blows, the mechanism strength would have doubtless been improved somewhat eventually, and the 700-ish FPS upper limits could have been exceeded. . .but then, would they truthfully have needed to be? In spite of his long range exploits, Elmer Keith would have admitted that 600-yard precision shots are not really what a handgun is for. If you accept that a handgun's purpose is to sock the other guy at 50 feet or less while the grunts with the thousand-yard capable rifles are otherwise occupied, the slow heavies do the job.

    And the top break gives you full ambidexterity, automatic ejection, and a breech held conveniently open while reloading. Its a species I wish had time to evolve a little more before it went extinct, but my old Brits give me a lot of joy.
    WWJMBD?

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  15. #15
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    I bought a Model 10 heavy barrel almost 25 years ago for $100. I had asked the dealer if he had any police turn in model 10's. Had one of the salespeople pull out a large cardboard box that was full of them. Spent about a half hour going through them. I handed him a copy of my buddies FFL and paid for it to be shipped back here in Louisiana. Not bragging about the price while that was great a nice model 10 HB was a grail gun for me. She's more than paid me back in just the sheer joy of shooting it. Then a model 14 target masterpiece and model 15 combat masterpiece over the years were added to keep the model 10 company. Love the K frame size revolvers and the only 357 magnum I own is a 1975 vintage Colt Trooper III with 6" barrel. That is one scary accurate revolver. I scored a spare parts kit on ebay and the dealer sent it to the wrong person. I got his stuff. Called him up and asked what he would take for some of the springs in the kit. Sent his stuff back with the money for the springs I selected but he kept the sideplate from my kit. Still worked out ok as I basically got everything except the frame. Almost mint Trooper III barrel and cylinder, trigger,hammer assorted small parts. Never shot cast bullets in either 38spl or 357 mag. One of these days. Thanks for the memories. Frank

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    The Raven .25 auto. Ugly, dependable, and accurate. I'll say the same about Hi-points.
    Heritage Rough Rider.22 single actions. Taurus and Rossi revolvers( I've never seen a bad one).

  17. #17
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Texas I agree, I have a Heritage Rough Rider in .22lr/.22mag switch cylinder. Dead nuts dependable.

    My Hipoints are pretty much the same way. I only have the one pistol, 9mm. But 3 carbines in 9mm, .40sw, and .45acp. Really like the way that .45acp shoots.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    The Grendel P10 .380 ACP pocket pistol is probably a odd one to run across. At the time it was unique in having a 11 round capacity for a small compact pistol too. Fixed magazine though. They didn't appear to make it for very long though. They made it for about three years. But at the time it was impressive with a 11 round capacity. You could use .223 stripper clips to reload the little beastie using an adapter too. it is still smaller and weighs less than some of the current .380 compact pistols on the market. It was maybe one of the first handguns to use a plastic frame too.

    A pic of my example:
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Just about anything in 25 auto and 22 Short only - auto or revolver. These calibers can and have killed people with correct bullet placement. The first murder trial I sat through involved a killing with a revolver (22 Short only) and a single hit to the back of the head (attempted robbery case).

    Many years ago I was at the Chattanooga PD firing range during a handgun qualification for patrol officers. The agency had a policy of "no back-up firearms" and the officers had a practice of "get to the end of your shift alive." Their issue sidearm was the S&W model 10 (yeah, it was that far back). I watched as an officer fired his revolver empty and attempted a fast reload. When he ejected the fired brass out of the cylinder, one casing flipped under the ejector and tied up the reload sequence. This was a timed stage of fire and the officer had to get his shots fired within the allowed time. He shoved the revolver back into his holster (as far as it would go with the cylinder not closed completely) went to his shirt pocket and engaged the target with a 25 auto. He emptied the clip into the target and put the small pistol back into his shirt pocket. The range officer started screaming at him - "You qualified. Now get off my range and get that **** thing (25 auto) outta here." The officer smiled and nodded to the range officer and left the range. While the range officer did not want to get involved in a violation of agency policy, he probably was happy to see that the officer was proficient with his work tools.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    The Raven .25 auto. Ugly, dependable, and accurate.
    Those Ravens were good guns for how little they cost. A lot of coppers used them as backups, and they provided cheap protection to many who couldn't afford anything else.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check