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Thread: In the universe of pocketable semiautomatic pistols . . .

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    In the universe of pocketable semiautomatic pistols . . .

    Ruger's LCR 357 Magnum weighs about 17.5 ounces unloaded and about 22 ounces loaded with five FBI 38 Special 158-grain LSWC-HP cartridges. Among semiautomatic pistols that have been in production long enough to demonstrate they are pretty much defect free, is there a 9x19 mm or 380 ACP pistol - with second strike capability - that weigh no more when loaded that is very easily pocketable?

    While my inclination is to limit semiautomatic pistols to hammer guns only, I understand that there are striker fired pistols that also have a second strike capability.
    It’s so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don’t say it. Sam Levinson

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I have a Taurus TCP380 that I could hit soda cans at 25yds on my first outing. It is as small as my Berretta .22lr tip-up barrel outside dimension, but thinner than the Beretta. When the Glock 42 came out (.380acp) I bought one, and had no problem hitting a 6" steel plate at 100yds. The the Glock 43 came out. Dimensionally similar to the to the 42, only instead of being .98" thick, it is 1.08" thick but shoots 9mm. The Taurus 709 Slim, also 9mm is similar in dimension to the G43, has a heavier slide, and holds 7+1 instead of 6+1. The 709 is the only pocket gun I have with re-strike. Wait, I have an FEG PA63 (clone of Walther PP) that is double/single action and does re-strike. That pistol had a horrible double action pull, something like 18lbs. Crisp single action though. It is similar in size to the G43. After reading up on the PA63, the double action pull was designed to be that heavy, the fix being clip 2 coils off the main spring, or replace with a stock Walther spring. I left it alone figuring that IF I were carrying it I could either carry cocked/locked, or just pull the trigger. During stress drills, I didn't really notice the trigger pull and figure if adrenaline kicked in it would not be an issue. G43 is a constant carry gun, and for a re-strike, you only need to cycle the slide back a slight bit to re-cock the striker. With practice it can be done single handed. I did it once while qualifying weapon side, unsupported, and didn't even think about it. The range master (a co-worker and fellow SWAT member) was impressed. (We used G22/G35s as duty weapons)

    So there is a small sampling, I have friends who like their S&W Shield, Sig something or others, your mileage may very. Go check them out, handle them, if there is a range that rents guns, try them and find what suits you.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!
    WWJMBD?

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    yes sir! takes no more effort then pulling the hammer back and shooting again. Bottom line is todays little semi auto guns are as reliable as any revolver. I'm not to worried about it anyway. Ive owned 3 lcps now and don't remember in all the thousands of factory and handloads ive put through all three of them the gun ever failing to go bang when I pulled the trigger. In my experience a round that doesn't go off when the trigger is pulled probably isn't going off the second time anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!

  5. #5
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    Light weight, single stack semi's, in serious caliber's (9 mm) are scarce as hens teeth. Those with second strike capability, even more so. I have a Beretta Nano, as well as a 357 LCR, the unloaded Nano weighs as much as the loaded LCR. Recently, purchased a Kahr CM-9 because of it's lighter weight. The weight of the loaded Kahr, with 7 rounds, is about equal to that of the fully loaded 357 LCR. Neither, the Nano or the Kahr, offer second strike capabilities but I don't find that a handicap. Both semi's are reliable. BTW, my primary mode of carry is "pocket", in a Mika holster. Goes in when I wake and out when I retire.

    Winelover

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Glock M43 is the compact that one wants. Can shoot +P and is very reliable.
    I carry mine IWB. I've not seen the need to carry it or any one in the pocket although I have an LCP2.
    Can carry IWB just as easily and just as concealed. I don't wear shorts and a wife beater so don't worry about pocket carry.
    Ow if I lived where the temps soared to 100 degrees and over I might wear shorts but still no wife beater.
    When you carry you dress for carry.

  7. #7
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    I have found that for those of us that carry 24/7...........IWB, will wear out your furniture, fast. My kitchen chairs are a testament to that. Don't want to have toreplace leather living room furniture.

    Winelover

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by winelover View Post
    I have found that for those of us that carry 24/7...........IWB, will wear out your furniture, fast. My kitchen chairs are a testament to that. Don't want to have toreplace leather living room furniture.

    Winelover
    You mean you carry when you sleep too? Man that must be uncomfortable when rolling over in bed and sleeping on the gun. If I lived in an area I had to sleep wearing a gun I would move. Now keep I mind I have dosed off in a chair with mine but I don't sleep in bed with it.
    I wear a shirt over my gun even at home most of the time. Sit in the same chair mostly and haven't had a problem.
    Everyone is different.
    Last edited by 44MAG#1; 01-21-2018 at 09:10 AM.

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    I'm going to toss out two of the OP's criteria - The 380 chambering and the second strike capability.

    In today's world we have small pistols chambered in 9mm that rival the 380 pistols is size. If you have a pistol chambered in 380 that you are proficient with, by all means, keep it. However, in today's world I wouldn't go in search of a new 380 pocket pistol when there are 9mm pistols just as small.

    Double strike capability - either the round goes bang or it doesn't. If it doesn't go bang, get rid of it. This is one of the advantages of a DA revolver. It automatically gets rid of the bad cartridge for you when you pull the trigger again.

    So, with the remaining criteria: lightweight and easily carried in a pocket; here are some ideas:

    The Kahr PM9 - lightweight, single stack polymer frame with an operating system very similar to Glock. Prior to the introduction of the Glock model 43, this was about as close as you could get to the Glock concept with a single stack/compact design. The early PM40 had problems and I think the 40 S&W was just a bit too much for that platform. The 9mm PM9 was reliable.

    Which brings us to the Glock 43 - Glock finally woke up and produced the pistol that everyone was screaming for. A single stack, compact 9mm pistol.

    After those two pistols you get into all of the other makes that will fit the criteria and do the job; but frankly, aren't all that different.

  10. #10
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    AND........

    I can't help but comment on the pistol v. revolver issue.

    Years ago I bounced around between several different small pistols. This was before any small 9mm pistols were available so most of the guns were chambered in 380. After doing that for some time, I landed back at the DAO snubnose revolver in 38 Special. That was more than 20 years ago and I haven't looked back since. Had there been a good compact, proven 9mm pistol on the market in those days, I may have settled in a different place. I'll never know.

    Ultimately, training, practice and consistency will have greater value than slightly better terminal ballistics and slighter greater cartridge capacity - IMO.
    At least I'm willing to bet on that.

    However, we now also have better compact DAO revolvers on the market.
    S&W 640, S&W 340PD (now without the lock), Ruger LCR in .357, Kimber K6S, etc. They may not all fit the lightweight criteria but they're close.
    So the revolver market has also changed over the years.

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    The two LCP IIs I have will fit a pocket better than anthing I have seen. The small 9mms are not that small. I am not concerned with second strike issue. I can easily roll with an LCP in each pocket of my 5.11 pants. I can do the same with a couple of my LCRs. New York reload, pull the second gun.

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    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    Second strike? That would be my head repeatedly hitting the wall at the notion. Clear the **** malfunction and don't waste time on a bad round - REGARDLESS of the trigger system!!!
    I could not say it better!
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

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    Boolit Master


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    The two LCP IIs I have will fit a pocket better than anthing I have seen. The small 9mms are not that small.
    IMO the small 9's are still holster guns, the LCP's and Keltec P3AT's are pocket guns which for me means carried ALL the time.
    "Masculine republics give way to feminine democracies, and feminine democracies give way to tyrannies.” Aristotle

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    Last edited by Three-Fifty-Seven; 04-28-2020 at 07:47 AM.
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    Boolit Buddy Certaindeaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naphtali View Post
    Ruger's LCR 357 Magnum weighs about 17.5 ounces unloaded and about 22 ounces loaded with five FBI 38 Special 158-grain LSWC-HP cartridges. Among semiautomatic pistols that have been in production long enough to demonstrate they are pretty much defect free, is there a 9x19 mm or 380 ACP pistol - with second strike capability - that weigh no more when loaded that is very easily pocketable?

    While my inclination is to limit semiautomatic pistols to hammer guns only, I understand that there are striker fired pistols that also have a second strike capability.
    The LCR does not, nor does any revolver have "second strike" capability.. yea, it'll rotate through (lest it locks up) and "second strike" that particular primer again but not in conventional/standard/proper description.
    anyway, probably use good primers and don't mess with the springs, hear?
    Sent from my computer using my fingers.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I guess a Glock M29 wouldn't qualify.

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    Boolit Grand Master Artful's Avatar
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    Last edited by Artful; 02-15-2018 at 10:54 PM.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Master Speedo66's Avatar
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    I tested a Sig 938 at my range. Nice gun, very accurate, but for me a little heavy for pocket carry. My other problem was I trained first on revolvers, then Glocks, so I'm used to just pulling the trigger rather than hunting for an external safety.

    Now retired, my choice for pocket carry is a Ruger LCP. No second strike capability, but so far I haven't needed it. If I do, it'll be "tap, rack, ready".

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Speedo66's Avatar
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    double post

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artful View Post
    None of the glocks have second strike that I am aware of.
    The other semi's others are talking about does?

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check