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Thread: Young Loaders and Lack of Knowledge

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Young Loaders and Lack of Knowledge

    Recently a Shooting Friend Asked me to teach his son to load. I agreed, well the son was about 30. I knew Thing were not going right when He asked to see my auto press I told him the only ones I had was My stars and RL 300.
    Thing went downhill from There. He asked if I was Certified. I said no but I have 55 years of Loading Under my Belt.
    So i started with a Few intro's on My single stage. He said He did not have time on those old machines.. I gave him a List of Books to Read and he could Borrow mine if he wanted.. His answer was He has been Reading stuff On the web.

    The final straw was he Only needed someone To show Him how to set a Progressive up when he got it and just Pull the handle Down. I saw this was not going well and wished him Good luck on his new Hobby.
    told my Fried let me Know How he makes out
    NRA Endowment Member
    International Ammunition Association
    New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    There are very few in that age bracket and under that don't want it done for them or the quick easy short cuts. I have seen new hand loaders that refused to deburr or chamfer a case mouth, saying if it was needed the die would do it. The misinformation they've learned and read between articles and internet is amazing in a way. Ive been told the crimp on primers was to make the case non reloadable by some. I load and shoot several wild cats formed from other brass and that really gets these guys going. One was shooting a 300 wsm when I was working on a wildcat rifle. we were talking he looked at my brass and I'm shooting 300 wsm also. I replied mine was a 6.5MM wildcat that the case was shortened on. He went and got one of his cases and couldn't understand why mine were different than his LOL. I hve seen it and the ones that start with the progressives usually never become true hand loaders but are remanufacturers just filling cases to shoot.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Certified?
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Sorry you were let down by your friends son. Seems everything these days has to be New, fast, and automated. If and when, he has his first mis-hap and it’s more a matter of when, he might hear the echo of your words !
    I’ve posted this in the past but nothing burns my butt more then “new” reloaders asking for others “Best load data” for xyz caliber and then, some...., give it out “Without warning”or the importantance of working up your load.
    Another one is “How fast can I” and not the question “Is there a better safer way to...” .

    Yes there are a few that recommend a powder they use, bullet weight and no load data and suggest reading books and manufactures recommended load data for min max charges.
    Safty is always the most important info that can and should be passed along.
    A new year is upon us and we all should stress the importance of safty to all the new younger generation. It’s their choice to listen and believe it’s for their safty and others around them at the range.

    Merry Christmas to all, Be safe and God Bless the USA.

    Mike

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I taught myself because I didn't know any reloaders but I had learned enough about guns and ammunition to know there was a lot more to it than just stuff 'em and shoot 'em. I read a handful of books and plenty of magazine articles before I bought any equipment.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  6. #6
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    I've always been afraid of progressive presses. I'll get some disagreement, but I simply won't ever own or use one. I personally don't like any device that doesn't require a conscious decision to make something happen for the most part. I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.

    There are a surprising number of shooting enthusiasts who have no clue about interior ballistics or how things work. Most seem to believe there is some kind of voodoo involved with reloading ammo. Some of the things I hear about I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master opos's Avatar
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    My days at the bench started back in the late 50's....there were not many reloaders in our area...very little information and components and equipment was scarce...fortunately people were friendlier, more willing to teach and learn, more willing to share experiences and more willing to lend things besides knowledge.

    We had a group of about 6 guys that all hunted and we began loading about the same time...we borrowed, loaned, shared equipment...we group bought components and shared things around and we put a lot of thought into the factors for developing loads, etc.....I still use a single stage press and a balance beam scale for much of my loading...that and a Lee Classic Turret press....I see posts about "How many rounds do you load an hour?", etc....I've just not cared....I load what I want in whatever period I want and that's it...example is that I just bought some nice brass (police range once fired 9mm and .40...it's beautiful stuff....but every piece is getting the look see...it's being examined and counted...took a bunch of time yesterday and today...so what? If I wasn't doing that I'd probably be wasting time somewhere else....I love to tinker with reloading and I don't measure pleasure with how many rounds fly through some automated piece of machinery....Slow and easy wins the race every time.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.
    I didn't think they still made 'em like that.
    ..

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Unfortunate that you had such an experience especially when it was you that took your time and your experience and this young novice had no respect for it. There was a thread about this somewhere in the remote past where the novice came back around and showed more interest and ended well, however, it seems this kid just wanted to be shown how to set up a press and churn out blasting ammo.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I don't Think It was a lack of Respect. All younger people know I think It's what They see In video's. The machine goes around and the loader is Just pulling The handle. No skill Required.
    What skill do You need . Why read, Why learn. Just pull the machine does it all
    NRA Endowment Member
    International Ammunition Association
    New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    On the upside, when things don't work out and some of these folks give up, there might be a pretty good deal to be had on slightly used equipment: "I never could get it to work, faster and easier to just buy ammo by the case."
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerd View Post
    I didn't think they still made 'em like that.
    ..
    You have to special order them. My 2500 silverado is a 5 speed manual. Crank up the windows and keys for the door. Every car and truck I have bought was a manual trans. The only automatics I have ever had were given to me as pass me downs. It is amazing how many can't drive a standard shift.
    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Ayn Rand

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSnover View Post
    On the upside, when things don't work out and some of these folks give up, there might be a pretty good deal to be had on slightly used equipment: "I never could get it to work, faster and easier to just buy ammo by the case."
    They may have too much trouble working it with one hand.
    There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide. Ayn Rand

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Hannibal's Avatar
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    Sometimes a person has to make a few mistakes to realize the error of their thinking. I look around my reloading room all the time and see stuff I bought I didn't need, stuff I had to fix because I didn't know how to use it correctly, and stuff that was just simply a bad idea to begin with.
    I had no mentors locally, what I know I've learned from forums such as this one and making mistakes. Someone will probably come along and take me to task for this, but making mistakes is part of the learning process. If anyone here has never made any mistakes, then I don't know why they are wasting their time on forums such as this one with us mere mortals.
    After this new loader makes a few mistakes, I imagine he'll be much more receptive to advice in the future, or proclaim reloading a waste of his time and move on to something else more fitting to someone with no patience and a lack of focus.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    The closest thing I ever had to a progressive press was a three holer Lee turret press I bought 35-40 years ago. I had to manually index it. One cartridge at a time. I traded it for a Lee O -style press, then bought an RCBS Rockchucker and gave the Lee to a fellow in the Mobile area who was starting out. I managed to teach two of my sons how to handload, the other just buys components and tells his younger brother what he needs. I've never tried to teach anyone else.....
    Tom
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Another old schooler here. I still do a single stage after many years and drive a stick 6 spd Jeep with roll down windows, no air and
    no automatic door openers. I shoot mostly single shots and enjoy my reloading sessions.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master


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    Impatient young men have always existed. I see them as a source for lightly used equipment, a few more years down the road.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

  18. #18
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    I have a lee turret press but I run it manually and load 50 cases at a time doing the same step 50 times then turn the head. I do like the advantage of having my AR plinking ammo head all setup and I just need to drop it in and go.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by salpal48 View Post
    Recently a Shooting Friend Asked me to teach his son to load. I agreed, well the son was about 30. I knew Thing were not going right when He asked to see my auto press I told him the only ones I had was My stars and RL 300.
    Thing went downhill from There. He asked if I was Certified. I said no but I have 55 years of Loading Under my Belt.
    So i started with a Few intro's on My single stage. He said He did not have time on those old machines.. I gave him a List of Books to Read and he could Borrow mine if he wanted.. His answer was He has been Reading stuff On the web.

    The final straw was he Only needed someone To show Him how to set a Progressive up when he got it and just Pull the handle Down. I saw this was not going well and wished him Good luck on his new Hobby.
    told my Fried let me Know How he makes out
    Thats sad that he did not take the opportunity to draw from your experience, but this seems to be the new normal. Maybe he will learn without hurting something and he may not. Time will tell.

    Some of the stuff that I see on Ytube really gripes me! Guys smelting lead wearing shorts and sandals and talking like experts! Dumb and Dumber stuff like that ate worse!

  20. #20
    Boolit Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by richhodg66 View Post
    I've always been afraid of progressive presses. I'll get some disagreement, but I simply won't ever own or use one. I personally don't like any device that doesn't require a conscious decision to make something happen for the most part. I'm about the only guy I know who drives a vehicle I have to shift gears, manuallt roll down windows and turn a metal key to open door locks on anymore.

    There are a surprising number of shooting enthusiasts who have no clue about interior ballistics or how things work. Most seem to believe there is some kind of voodoo involved with reloading ammo. Some of the things I hear about I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
    I agree with your thoughts, even though I own and use a couple pro 1000's. [ 9mm and 38 spc. ]. Actually I haven't used the 38 yet. However the 9mm press helped me to ruin a star super, no powder, followed by a fully loaded one. Yes it was doubly my fault, however I fill like it probably wouldn't have happened , had I been loading with a single stage press.
    Oklahoma. Quite possibly the reddest state in the U.S.A. 77 counties, 2 elections, and not a single one went for B.O. Uh make that 3 elections, we didn't care much for Hillary either.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check