Does anyone still make a good USA made muzzleloader?

[Rich/WIS]

Haunt other forums as well, picked up a TC Hawken for $200 a few years ago with a TC peep sight. Needed a new ramrod and replaced the peep with an original open sight and didn't look back. Local second hand shop has a new TC PA hunter for $400, and saw two Hawkens at a gun show Saturday, a 45 and a 50, for $350. Around here the inlines are the thing and prices on the traditional rifles are low. Have had several Traditions rifles over the years and they all shot well and killed deer just fine.

[rfd]

fwiw --- all the offshore trad ml's have patent breeches. the spanish guns (traditions and others) have breech plugs that are near impossible to remove, some of the pedersoli plugs are also in that category. investarms guns (lyman, DGW, cabelas, and other rebranders) have plugs that can be relatively easy to remove. there are some excellent reasons for the need to remove a breech plug without the need for a gunsmith.

my take on the investarms trad ml's, after owning, shooting, and working on literally dozens of them over the years, is that they are the better buy over the other offshore guns. the investarms working parts are at least good if not excellent, too. much of the issues with ANY of these guns comes from not knowing how to set them up, adjust the locks, and realize that all patent breeches require special attention. ALL the investarms trad ml's can be made to work reliably and consistently, including many multiple accurate shots without the need for fouling control. like most everything in life, it's all about The Knowledge - having it, not having it ... or better yet, always learning and acquiring it.

[triggerhappy243]

I am not a traditionalist, and am not biased for inline vs other types of ignition muzzle loaders. My main purpose is deer hunting, but I shoot them year round. I used to use an H&R huntsman, before I bought my current T/C Impact. Both are fine, USA made muzzleloaders that you can buy for a good price. I also have a Knight TK2000 12 gauge that I love. I'm interested in another rifle, but with a slower twist. I have no interest in shooting sabot's at all. Thompson Center still has a bunch of inline, fast twist guns, but nothing else. I'd be all over a Knight bighorn if they came with a 1:48 twist barrel. Other than that it's a bunch of imported guns until you get to the custom guns. Even if I looked past the fact its imported, Traditions wants $300 for their deer hunter? Not a chance! Is there any muzzle loader, of any kind, slower twist barrel, made in USA (or equivalent, you know the ones), and is priced reasonably?

mega, there are tons of T/C rifles for sale. you may need to broaden your search theory. pawn shops, maw and paw gun shops, even flea markets.you can even look for a T/C rifle with a trash barrel and get it relined. Bobby Hoyt is top notch at it.

[megasupermagnum]

I figured I'd get some clash to my desire of Made in USA firearms. No point in trying to sway me, I'm set in my personal belief here. I am surprised at the whole price range thing. I'm not looking for a fancy replica like a Pedersoli, or other custom maker. They are what they are, and the cost is in the craftsmanship. I'm not looking for that. In the past week I have discovered a whole ton of side locks Thompson Center used to make, and I am most certainly interested in them. When the time comes to buy, that's probably the route I'll go. It is disappointing they are not made anymore. You guys must make more money than me, or at least value fancy stocks more than me, but in my eyes $1000 for a hunting muzzle loader is just unreasonable. It's a metal tube, a lock and a stock. I did state $600 as an absolute maximum, but I doubt I'd pay that much.

So the short answer to thread is that no, there are not any slow twist (1:48 or slower) guns made in USA anymore.

I will say I like the look of a cross between a modern and more traditional side lock. One that has stuck out for me is the T/C black mountain magnum. I really like the straight stock with very little drop at the heel, and a nice rubber butt pad. This is my opinion, nothing else, but I think the more traditional stock with ton of drop at the heel, and a tightly cupping butt pad (with metal plate) is ugly and shoots hard. I also hate the extra junk they add on to the trigger guards, although that can be cut off.

Anyway, my question was answered, and I learned a lot about older T/C muzzle loaders. Thanks.

[waksupi]

I figured I'd get some clash to my desire of Made in USA firearms. No point in trying to sway me, I'm set in my personal belief here. I am surprised at the whole price range thing. I'm not looking for a fancy replica like a Pedersoli, or other custom maker. They are what they are, and the cost is in the craftsmanship. I'm not looking for that. In the past week I have discovered a whole ton of side locks Thompson Center used to make, and I am most certainly interested in them. When the time comes to buy, that's probably the route I'll go. It is disappointing they are not made anymore. You guys must make more money than me, or at least value fancy stocks more than me, but in my eyes $1000 for a hunting muzzle loader is just unreasonable. It's a metal tube, a lock and a stock. I did state $600 as an absolute maximum, but I doubt I'd pay that much.

So the short answer to thread is that no, there are not any slow twist (1:48 or slower) guns made in USA anymore.

I will say I like the look of a cross between a modern and more traditional side lock. One that has stuck out for me is the T/C black mountain magnum. I really like the straight stock with very little drop at the heel, and a nice rubber butt pad. This is my opinion, nothing else, but I think the more traditional stock with ton of drop at the heel, and a tightly cupping butt pad (with metal plate) is ugly and shoots hard. I also hate the extra junk they add on to the trigger guards, although that can be cut off.

Anyway, my question was answered, and I learned a lot about older T/C muzzle loaders. Thanks.

Nowadays, parts for a good custom COST close to $1000.

[Buzzard II]

I'd go with the gun show route, pawn shops, too. Find an acceptable smokepole from all outward appearances and then send it to Bob Hoyt to make it whatever caliber & rate of twist you want. The man makes magic. If the gun is OK at some lower price, another $150 ?? for the barrel work will give you a new gun -- more or less. Best of all you choose the caliber and twist rate for the type of boolit you want.

It sounds like 725 is right on the money with his suggestion. This sounds like the best of all worlds. Good luck.
Bob

[rfd]

or .... you could take yer chances on a jackie brown gun, built by him, in the USA, with USA parts, for typically $700-800 (sometimes even less). you could take yer chances, as i did when he built my .62 smoothbore ... pm me for more details if need be. other than that, you'd be very hard pressed to find what's in yer thread title for less, unless it was used and you really lucked out with a stupid cheap price. on the offshore side of the coin, you will not do wrong with a GPR or DGW kit gun for $500 or less - my GPR with bobby hoyt barrel makeover is a top notch shooter. good luck.

[waksupi]

or .... you could take yer chances on a jackie brown gun, built by him, in the USA, with USA parts, for typically $700-800 (sometimes even less). you could take yer chances, as i did when he built my .62 smoothbore ... pm me for more details if need be. other than that, you'd be very hard pressed to find what's in yer thread title for less, unless it was used and you really lucked out with a stupid cheap price. on the offshore side of the coin, you will not do wrong with a GPR or DGW kit gun for $500 or less - my GPR with bobby hoyt barrel makeover is a top notch shooter. good luck.

I would not recommend Jackie Brown to anyone.

[rfd]

I would not recommend Jackie Brown to anyone.

i totally agree rick, but with some serious reservations. there are ways of dealing with jackie where yer not gambling. depends not so much on jackie, but the buyer's circumstances and how the deal goes down. which means the buyer has a serious lack of funds and strong desire for a "decent" gun that's "made in the USA" rather than offshore. personally, rather than attempt the jackie route, i would recommend going with a particular offshore gun if money is that tight and yet the desire for a good trad ml is high.

[Squeeze]

What does the OP want to shoot? he mentions inlines, and even Whites, but wants a 48 twist. Do you plan to shoot big lead conicals, short lead, round balls.. What is your price range? is there a $300 dollar cap? I have recently seen several for sale to meet any one or two of these criteria, but no one gun really does it all well, outside very short range

[shdwlkr]

don't forget traditional gun shops as some get in muzzle loaders and price them to move. don't think the outside of a good muzzle loader is representative of the bore. I once saw a tc big boar that had been rained on that previous owner didn't take care of bore was great price was even better and it shot great. Most good condition tc muzzle loaders can be had in these price ranges renegade in the 300's hawken 3-400, seneca 4-700 along with the cherokee in the same price range, big boar in good condition what the local market will bear. Years ago I stopped into a local gun shop that had a cherokee and a seneca that they wanted around 500 each they came home with me for 600 for the pair as they didn't deal in muzzle loaders and wanted them gone. Wished I still had them and maybe I do just haven't found them since I finally got a home and could have all my stuff in one place

[Hanshi]

You're pretty much out of luck for a US produced sidelock made of wood and steel. I might recommend a Jim Kibler kit. They come with everything done to them so a careful duffer could build a very nice one. They are the easiest kits - excluding the imported kits which are basically just a "reassemble". Plus, they are best quality parts. TVM also sells "almost done" kits that are similar to Jim's. Matt's kits are a little cheaper but you're still looking at under $1000 either way.