Long shots are for bad hunters, article

[TXGunNut]

Yes, sir! Time & distance. All the tech in the world will not repeal the laws of physics.

[GEOMETRIC]

To rephrase a former post. Before you can use all this long range paraphernalia, the target has to stand there while you take measurements, set your scope for drop & wind drift, get into shooting position & it is not allowed to move while the bullet is in flight. It also requires much planning & practice for the expected long range shot, which the average hunter under most hunting situations, rarely ever encounters & even more rarely has a clue of how to respond.
Should you be the exception to the general rule & have a reasonable chance of making a clean, one shot kill, go for it. Like a well known writer, sportsman, firearms expert & guide once wrote, "a honest 300 yds. is a looong way out there". "Most of these 500 yd. kills people claim they make turn out to be more like 300 or 250 yds. when the distance is actually measured".
I don't like wounding game. Blasting away at game in the hopes that you might get lucky & make a kill is both unsportsmanlike & results in wanton waste of a valuable resource.

[Soundguy]

Good post Geometric!

[Scorpion8]

I once got in a heated debate with a member on another forum like this on why he wanted the Remington chassis set-up for long range hunting, and his reply was he needed to make "...600 yard shots across canyons at game." I asked why he didn't stalk closer, because those chassis set-ups with bipods, mega-glass, etc are typically very heavy. His response was he couldn't get any closer. So naturally I asked if he couldn't get closer, then how would he retrieve the game he just killed (or wounded)? His reply was to launch a flame explosion of criticism of everything under the sun that didn't agree with him being the smartest hunter ever born.

Personally I don't take shots more than 150 yards or so, which is very limited by my current hunting areas. I know my limitations, and frankly long range sniping of game is not hunting to me. YMMV.

[Soundguy]

I've heard the same inane arguments as well. I've talked to people that brag on their ling hunting shots.. Yet when you visit their house, no antlers, horns, skins or heads are up, and at regular bbq's they never have wild meat to toss on the grill, and if you shoot a pig, and are quartering it up, they will tell you that their freezer is empty if you need extra space....

[500Linebaughbuck]

Personally I don't take shots more than 150 yards or so, which is very limited by my current hunting areas. I know my limitations, and frankly long range sniping of game is not hunting to me. YMMV.

i am also limited to 150 yards, except for the 500L (its limit is 125 yards) for cast boolits. jacketed goes out to 300-325 yards. i rarely use jacketed bullets.

[GEOMETRIC]

Scorpion, did you ever post on "Shotgun World"? The guy you talk about reminds me of a character I encountered on SW. This character was a self proclaimed expert on how far & with what size steel shot you could kill ducks. Since his numbers clashed with my personal experience & the experience of others as well as what has been written on the subject, I asked him how he knew the range of the ducks he was killing. My experience is range is difficult to estimate, is often deceptive & more often than not, over estimated. I spend 8 or more hours a day about 4 days a week measuring things. This guy got real hostile as he couldn't answer the question, said I was calling him a liar & wanted to physically fight. So much for an objective discussion!

[McFred]

I agree with Rosewood, if electronic/optical shooting accessories are a crutch, then the firearm itself is one too, and it's hypocritical to dismiss one technology over the other.

Some people need to reign-in their self-righteousness. If it's legal nobody has any authority to tell others how to pursue game.

[rking22]

Its not about legal or authority, I can legally take a shot at a deer with a Raven 25, and I really dont think anyone thinks that's appropriate. As stated on page one, its the difference between hunting and shooting. There is much more to the hunt than firing the shot! We used to go shoot ground hogs, the test was making the shot. We have dove shoots. Hunting has different meanings to all of us, to each their own but legality has little to do with ethical.
Sometimes I go out to "deer hunt" other times I go out to "shoot some food" the experience is as different as the intendion conveyed by the terms. If I am hunting and can't get within 200 yards of a TN deer, then he wins and we do it again another day. With Antelope out west that number is probably more like 300. I can easily make that 200 yard shot on the deer but it's not as rewarding as getting within his " personal space".
As I said. To each their own, but I take the title of the article to be saying that a good hunter can get closer than a not so good hunter. So the long shot becomes an excuse to not hone the hunting skills. The content is about range estimation, not an issue for those comfortable with tech. The simple desire to see how far away we can kill a deer is a different quest than hunting, right or wrong is up to the participants. Disclaimer, all the above is just opinion, we all got one and I think that forums are a place to share...later

[Edward]

Killing stuff with a stikbow @ 15 yds does not make me a great hunter ,(4-5 per yr ) was enough to put meat on the table . But the fact that I am proficient shooting long likewise does not make me a poor/lousy hunter . Like Clint said ,a man needs to know his limitations (yours and mine may vary)

[GEOMETRIC]

In regard to the "Fish Measure" Pop bought a fish camp/ tackle business when he retired from the Navy. He use to say,"the fisherman that tells the first lie, doesn't have a chance".
From where I sit, it is all about if you have a reasonable chance of making a clean kill. Like Edward says above, our limitations may vary. So how far is too far? The short answer is it depends. You are the only one that can make the call. Lets hope that in the interest of sportsmanship & wildlife preservation, you make it based on fact, knowledge & sound judgement & are not just looking for an excuse to shoot when there is little chance of a clean kill.
When I am in a swamp where visibility is limited to less than 100 yds. & shooting my 54 cal. ml loaded with a round ball, 75 yds. is a long shot. When siting over a agricultural field or salt marsh with unlimited viability, with my .300 Win., it is a lot more. Should your deer stand be equipped with a sand bag rest, a range finder & a spotting scope & you are shooting a .50 BMG, you are probably justified taking shots further than most of the rest of us. Also, you must actually shoot & practice at the ranges you intend to shoot under hunting conditions. Those that have never shot at anything over 300 yds. should take a 5 gal. plastic bucket & shoot at it in 100 yd. increments up to about 1,000 yds.. I did & it was an eye opener!
When I go deer or big game hunting I, like most everybody else, hunt with equipment I can carry with me. Here, most often I go prepared for shots out to about 200 yds. & visibility is generally less. Very often, I have to make off hand shots. If I were hunting in Wyoming, I would go prepared for longer shots but try to get shots at 200 yds. or less. I once pulled targets for the long range rifle match near NAS Miramar (AKA fighter town). That was back in the 60's & I don't recall what they were called but they were held at the Marine base across the Hwy. from the NAS. They were some of the best shots in the country shooting the M1 Garand (30-06) at ranges of 600 yds. or more & they were sighted in for that range. I can't recall group sizes but I can tell you that I personally would not shoot at a big game animal at that range with a rifle shooting the groups that I saw.

[Soundguy]

Many of my dangerous game rifles have express and flip up leaf sights, 100-200-300 yards max.

[M-Tecs]

I once pulled targets for the long range rifle match near NAS Miramar (AKA fighter town). That was back in the 60's & I don't recall what they were called but they were held at the Marine base across the Hwy. from the NAS. They were some of the best shots in the country shooting the M1 Garand (30-06) at ranges of 600 yds. or more & they were sighted in for that range. I can't recall group sizes but I can tell you that I personally would not shoot at a big game animal at that range with a rifle shooting the groups that I saw.

They would have been using iron sights at 600 yards. The equipment and bullets have came a long way since than. Due to improvements in equipment the 5V target was eliminated in the late 60's and a smaller more challenging 10 point target was introduced for High Power Competition. This was used till the mid 80's when the 300 and 600 yard target had the size of the aiming black increased by one scoring ring. The rings stayed the same size. This change was to aid service rifle shooter with post front sights. That is what is in current use today for NRA Highpower.

While F class and Highpower can be intermixed on the firing line F class targets are smaller scoring rings.

Under todays classifications 600 yards is considered midrange for competition.

The groups/scores being shot by todays service and match rifles shooter out to a 1,000 yards are truly impressive. These are all shot from standing, sitting or prone with a sling for sitting and prone. F class is prone with bipod or front rest. Long range matches are won and lost by the shooters ability to read wind.

Too be competitive today your equipment should hold 1/2 MOA for ten shot groups out to a 1,000 yards.

If any things they are a good long range shot NRA Highpower or F Class is an outstanding format to truly test and judge your skills.

Most of todays marketing and products are geared towards the Precision Rifle Series type competitions being pushed on TV. IMHO is not as good of a format to learn or judge your long range shooting abilities.

[fcvan]

I have a couple of buddies who like to test their limits on longer shots and use a range finder. However, they both look at the target, estimate the range, and then check it to see how close they guessed. The use the tool to improve their skill at ranging a target. I don't think they take the range finder on hunts. Well, at least one does not as he does not own one. BTW, That guy got is elk at 476 yds DRT. He puts in a lot of trigger time as he does not want to 'take a shot I haven't made before', his words. My limit is 100yds, not because I can't make a shot farther, but because I challenge myself to stalk closer. Dad always said 'close enough for a bow is a good stalk.' It makes a better story at camp, especially when you have a witness. I even think it makes the meat better, but I might just be fooling myself.

[GEOMETRIC]

M-Tecs,
Good points. Now that I reflect back (it has been a long time) I believe they were shooting prone with peep sights. However, hunters rarely have the opportunity to sight their rifles in at the range that game presents itself. Also, at those extended ranges the bullet has lost considerable energy. It has to do more than punch a hole in a target. That pretty much eliminates the small calibers & magnifies the demands of proper bullet placement.

[white eagle]

I limit my shots to 150 yds anyone who shoots further doesn't know what they are doing and is irresponsible

[Motor]

Six pages of this nonsense. Really?

Has anyone actually described the meaning of "long range" yet? How far is "long range"?

Motor

[MT Gianni]

Also taking aside the Author would have had multiple life sentences in almost any other era and wrote conflicting articles on subjects for his own amusement.

[rking22]

6 pages and no ones gotten banned, or even spotty! Im impressed. Must have actually been a decent articl, it generated quite a bit of discussion. Many authors state that is their measure of success, does it make folks think....
More popcorn...

[Soundguy]

Besides making people think, I've also heard it said that if your topic/conversation /article doesn't make at least a few people mad that you left something out!