MidSouth Shooters SupplyLee PrecisionADvertise hereGraf & Sons
Inline FabricationStainLess Steel MediaTitan ReloadingRotoMetals2

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 159

Thread: Long shots are for bad hunters, article

  1. #21
    Moderator Emeritus


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SW Montana
    Posts
    9,717
    I put the article in the same tone as the one preceding it that proclaimed the finest bullet in the world, ready to take over all handgunning and rifle hunting was a dead soft wadcutter with two round balls swadged to it. "Things ain't always what they seem are they gunny". With modern rangefinders and accurate rifles longer ranges are available. I also remember Col. Askins writing opposing views on the same subject as gospel when he wrote whatever the editors wanted.
    For me 350 yards + is a long shot. I am not a fan of shooting beyond your practice range. It is easy to carry a rangefinder today and guess a distance as you are out for a walk and then range it to check your accuracy. Like most things a lack of practice does not build skills, nor does reading about it. I have acquaintances whose only way to hunt the area around them and get elk is with a 338/378 Weatherby and 600 yard shots. They get Elk every year and it must work for them but that is not the way I prefer to hunt.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  2. #22
    Boolit Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,908
    Quote Originally Posted by ammohead View Post
    Some factual information. The time from when a hunter commits to taking the shot till when the sear breaks is about .3 seconds. The amount of time it takes a 140gr bullet from a 6.5 Creedmoor to travel 800 yards is approx 1 full second. 1.3 seconds is enough time for a deer to take two steps forward and you just gut shot him. No amount of practice, exterior ballistics data and wind doping is going to bring that bullet back. That should be enough fact to make any hunter do some serious soul searching before taking that shot. But we now have hunting shows that promote this very thing. So much so that a 800 yard shot at a bull elk is on many hunters bucket list.
    It's quite well known among bowhunters that deer are quite capable of jumping the string. Same principle here. I personally think 25 yards is about max with most bows. I have seen guys on ranges do some amazing things with compound bows and releases and such. Many guys can keep them in a group the size of a deer's vitals at 70 yards. Watch an arrow travel 70 yards and count how long and how much of an arc the arrow makes on it's way. Target range is fine, I hope they don't try it on deer.

    For the past several years, the vast majority of my deer have been shot at 50 yards or less. Several have been darn near straight down shots. Are there places around me where a long shot could present itself? Sure, but I think most guys who shoot deer at long range set themselves up for those kinds of shots. Rule number 1; get close. Rule number 2; get closer.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    483
    Not everyone can stalk up close in the woods. Veteran I know lost too much while serving, he's NOT likely to be taking 50 yard shots as the deer over there don't get that close.

    Let me put it another way. In the gulf wars etc., military snipers have taken shots out to HOW far, and made 1 shot kills? When those folks come home, do you think their shooting skills vanish when they leave the service? Yes, they're not Joe Sixpack who lives next door and can't hit anything at 100 yards. So?

  4. #24
    Boolit Master kens's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    coastal Ga
    Posts
    765
    The one that gets me is the guy that shoots a running deer at 300yards......one shot kill.
    The same guys that say they do it frequently.
    Yeah, right...........

  5. #25
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    1,675
    Shooting at long ranges is just that "shooting". When you stalk up to a short range that's HUNTING!

  6. #26
    Boolit Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,908
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    When I shoot steel @300 yds with my .260Rem the target starts swinging long before I hear the 'THWACK!!!' of the bullet strike. The speed of sound is 979FPS. That bullet is traveling nearly 3x as fast, and any target animal is going to be struck long before the sound of the shot reaches it's ears, let alone the time it takes to interpret and react to that sensory input.

    Comparing an arrow @350FPS and a bullet @2800FPS is . . . . well just silly.
    Nope, not silly at all. Both shooters have to work within realistic limitations of what their weapon system is. Obviously, rifles reach farther than bows, but the concept of respecting your game and your limitations is the same.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    1,438
    The way I shoot my Flintlock close shots are bad too. LOL
    Missed again today.
    Motor

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    483
    Flintlock makes the game a lot more "Sporting", truly, harder!

    Years ago - I've seen a couple folks shoot magpies out of the sky (cliff backdrop so no danger to people downrange.) I'm nowhere NEAR as good on flying prey as they were, a running Coyote's just a speed/distance problem to solve - Have someone roll tire hulls down a hill for you, with cardboard inside the center, for moving target practice. HARD but once you can hit those you've trained your brain to do something new!

    Caplocks only here so far & I need to hit the woods and pop some of those caps

  9. #29
    Boolit Master


    richhodg66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,908
    "I did not read the article."

    Explains a lot. Didn't read or understand most people's posts on this thread either, it seems.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,830
    Quote Originally Posted by ammohead View Post
    Some factual information. The time from when a hunter commits to taking the shot till when the sear breaks is about .3 seconds. The amount of time it takes a 140gr bullet from a 6.5 Creedmoor to travel 800 yards is approx 1 full second. 1.3 seconds is enough time for a deer to take two steps forward and you just gut shot him. No amount of practice, exterior ballistics data and wind doping is going to bring that bullet back. That should be enough fact to make any hunter do some serious soul searching before taking that shot. But we now have hunting shows that promote this very thing. So much so that a 800 yard shot at a bull elk is on many hunters bucket list.
    You nailed it all the way from Nevada. That's long range posting! Very well put, sir.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
    dk17hmr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    1,984
    I enjoys these threads because I have done all the negatives that usually get listed, often several times in the same year.

    I also eat very well.

    I'd be willing to take the $100 bet if I can use my kestrel and range finder exactly like I would in the field.
    Doug
    .................................................. ........................................
    Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

    Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting

    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    483
    I'd take the bet without range finder, once I get back in practice. Human brain's an amazing learning machine Been 12 years since I was shooting regularly tho, some practice first. If I could do it in my early teens I can do it now...

  13. #33
    Boolit Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    4,714
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    As long as they end up killing the animal it seems ok these days. Watch the hunting shows (rifle and bow) on tv and a gut shot or mid section shot seems to be the norm. While I have taken a few "long" shots on big game because it was the only choice left I am well practiced at long range shooting. I also won't shoot unless I am confident of putting the bullet into the vital heart lung zone. I also don't shoot beyond the effective range my ability and the terminal performance of the bullet.
    Larry I do find it interesting in these types of threads that the people who actually have significant long range competitive experience tend to keep their shooing yardages relatively modest compared to their abilities.

    I lost a forkhorn whitetail buck as a 12 year old with the bow. I didn't much care for the feeling. In the past 45 years I have killed 50 plus big game animals with the bow and that is still my only loss with the bow. My shooting abilities with the bow make 60 or 70 yard shoots realistic but to date 37 yards is my longest bow kill. 40 yards is the max I will shoot.

    Since 1974 I have killed around 180 big game animals with firearms. I hit one in the mid 80's that I lost. That was the only one with a firearm.

    I started shooting NRA Highpower across the course and long range in 1989. That really improved my shooting abilities.

    It's been since the mid 90's since I missed a shot on non wounded big game animal. Some required more than one shot but no misses. I have taken shots at game that others have wounded. I have some misses doing that. I did kill a buck that a hunting partner wounded at a lasered 587 yards but on deer I keep my shots to 300 and under.

    I also shoot on average 3,000 rounds a year on prairie dogs. Longest was about 850 yards with a 6.5 x 284 match rifle but I much prefer to keep the yardages so I have a 75% or better hit ratio on prairie dogs.

    A buddy wanted me to build him a rifle so he could do a 1,000 yard pd shot. I let him use 6.5 x 284 and spotted for him. It took him 37 shots but he did kill one at 1,087 yards. I don't see the point but it made him happy.

    I keep my laser range finder handy and range all the time. I have gotten very good at it 90% 0f the time but maybe 10% of the time I miss judge by eye by 25%.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-07-2018 at 06:18 AM.

  14. #34
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    16,880
    I have found that people with extensive long range shooting competitions in their background, are much less likely to take long shots at game.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  15. #35
    Boolit Master 1bluehorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    921
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Goes along with those "bughole....dime size" groups we read about.....

    Attachment 211153

    ......

    Where's the "like" button for this post....? It would seem that in today's world of "shooting" if you/your rifle can't shoot at least 1/2 MOA at whatever distance (not long ago THAT number was a 100yds but NOW it seems that number has increased to at least 200yds) So for what this OP is about, long range killing, it would seem to me that all the shooters that can do so, (and there appears to be a bunch, just read the posts around here) should be able to put a killing shot into a deer size target out to at least 500yds without issue. Me personally, around 300 or a bit less would be about my limit, closer is better. But then my 100yd "groups" only measure around an inch or so, perhaps a bit more most days. Of course YMMV as they say....

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    God's country - WI.
    Posts
    922
    Yep.
    I learned a long time ago not to argue with those who claim that they could do it.

    I'd never try to say that nobody could make ethical 500 yard first shot kill zone hits on big game.
    It's just that I'm convinced that the actual number of people who could reliably make first shot killing hits at such distances under hunting conditions is so miniscule as to be statistically insignificant.

    It's one of the strange anomalies of the universe that I personally run into so many of those skilled shooters, even though they number but a small fraction of a percent of shooters overall.

    Just another of those things I'm trying to understand. It's pretty easy to see that I still have much to learn.

    Uncle R.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    483
    Part of the problem with the subject line on this post is, "Define Long" - Is that 200 yards? 300 yards? 1 mile? We may all mean more of the same thing than we realize, here. I can agree that you don't take shots at a deer or elk at the same range you'd try for a Varmint at. "Long" means different things to different people, I imagine, though. Causes confusion. Language can be a more precise tool than we sometimes bother to use it as.

  18. #38
    Boolit Man GEOMETRIC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    HEMINGWAY
    Posts
    100
    I am on my second .300 Win.. I bought the first one because I was contemplating a Big game hunt in Canada but that never happened. I bought the second one because I already had the dies & was thinking I would just load .308 equivalent loads for deer. It will kill effectively much farther than I have ever shot at anything with it. I have made several 200 yd. +/- shots with it. I usually hunt in wooded areas & just don't get the opportunity. I prefer my muzzle loader & shots not over 50 yds. I also like clean one shot kills. The trend today seems to be to fill the air with bullets & hope something runs into one of them. Most experienced hunters have a feel for if the game is in their kill zone or not, even if they don't know the range. I can invariably tell you if I can kill a duck but usually can only guess at the yardage. I thought one guy was going to order a hit on me because I told him I didn't think he knew how far he was shooting at game. I try to steer clear of people that want to fight because you think they are mistaken. I am a land surveyor & measure things for a living. That 300yds. typically turns out to be 250 or 200 yds. when you measure it.
    Bottom line, you are not stretching your barrel if your shooting & your rifle are up to the task & you are reasonably sure you can make a clean kill.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master


    kmrra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Graham, Texas
    Posts
    435
    of all the deer that I have killed I have never shot one over 100 yards, and that was way back when I could see good
    I like 1911's and Wheel Guns , Wood Stocks and Blue Metal , Dislike Black on Black and Magazines on Rifles whats this country coming to.
    Amateur Radio Station -KB5SMG- since 1994 Call sign change as of 8-15-17 WB5MG *** My Station now consist of a new * Icom 7300 * along with a new * Ameritron AL-80B Amp * and various other goodies. Im in the process of putting an * Alinco DX70T * HF radio in my work truck I can Be emailed at rockinpmanager@gmail.com

  20. #40
    Boolit Master


    kmrra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Graham, Texas
    Posts
    435
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Goes along with those "bughole....dime size" groups we read about.....

    Attachment 211153

    ......
    I can put three shots touching under a nickle LOL
    I like 1911's and Wheel Guns , Wood Stocks and Blue Metal , Dislike Black on Black and Magazines on Rifles whats this country coming to.
    Amateur Radio Station -KB5SMG- since 1994 Call sign change as of 8-15-17 WB5MG *** My Station now consist of a new * Icom 7300 * along with a new * Ameritron AL-80B Amp * and various other goodies. Im in the process of putting an * Alinco DX70T * HF radio in my work truck I can Be emailed at rockinpmanager@gmail.com

Page 2 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check