Graf & SonsStainLess Steel MediaWidenersRepackbox
RotoMetals2Inline Fabrication

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 159

Thread: Long shots are for bad hunters, article

  1. #61
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    El Dorado County, N. Ca.
    Posts
    4,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Sheesh View Post
    When the other guy is shooting at your guys it sorta changes the ethics of the situation. Snipers would have to live with themselves afterwards - and I'd imagine that knowing that the other guy was an actively hostile shooter makes that a lot easier.
    I think we should arm the Politicians who are in league and fomenting war...give them some training, weapons and dress them in 'TactiCool Gear' then let them go up against a squad of Politicians from the other side, other Country and let them fight our wars in the future. Give the ole TaxPayer a break on costs and save a few million young people's lives too.

    Then again...I tend to oversimplify things too...we have a surplus of Female Politicians out here in Cali we could send to go up against the fatboy...Kim Jung-woo.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    “In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” G. Orwell

    2018 was a 'Jaw-Dropping Year' . . . 'The Year', the World was born to live . . .
    just, "watch your 6" .

    2019 is the year for 'Paying the Piper' . . . 'The Fall of the Cabal' . . . coming to a Theatre near you!

  2. #62
    Boolit Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    4,944
    Quote Originally Posted by reloader28 View Post
    Not once have I ever heard these same people complain about ethics when a sniper is shooting at a man at 1500+yds and takes him 2 shots to dial in.
    In US military sniping the Law of War and rule of engagement are the only "ethics" since the goal is to kill or wound. The suffering of the target is of ZERO importance. Same for recovery of the target. If wounded and captured some intel is possible but not normally the goal of the sniper taking the shot. Depending on the situation the sniper team may be out in Indian country in the classic Carlos Hathcock style of sniping to just another combatant is a fire fight shooting at anything that appears to be an enemy combatant. At times shooting beyond the shooters and equipment's capability may be required.

    Prairie dogs normally are not recovered and are considered to be a destructive animal that needs to be eliminated. Plowing under, poisoning/gassing, trapping, flooding, vacuuming and shooting are consider to be "ethical" control methods by the State DNR's/Game and Fish and the farmers/landowner. However suffering is still suffering. That is one of the reasons I like to keep my yardage so a can maintain a 75% hit ratio. Also with the highly explosive varmint bullets that are normally used it doesn't take much of a hit to be quickly fatal. A center gut shot on a prairie dog with a varmint bullet is instantly fatal. A center gut shot on a big game animal not so much.

    Same applies to coyotes. Trapping/snaring, poisoning, gassing the pupping dens and shooting are all consider to be "ethical" control methods by the State DNR's/Game and Fish and the most farmers/ranchers. Every rancher that I have met expects you to shoot at every coyote you see. They really don't care if you kill it instantly or it dies a day later.

    In big game hunting the goal is to recover the animal. Some don't care if the animal is wounded and not recovered, however, wanton waste is normally considered to be "unethical" and is normally not legal.

    I know people that wound 2 or 3 deer for everyone they recover and yes I consider them to be "slob hunters"

    Same for goose hunting. Some people like to skybust and the number of wounded geese doesn't concern them. For me I like to maintain a 75% kill ratio shooting geese.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-09-2018 at 06:23 PM.

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The 13th colony
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by reloader28 View Post
    Stalking is an awesome way to hunt and I love it.

    BUT 90% of the people posting on this do nothing more than sit on their but in a tree stand or blind and wait for something to "happen" to walk by. Then brag about their "skill"
    Stalking may be well and good when you have thousands of acres of open terrain. However, if you hunt in dense forest and only have 60 acres that you have permission to hunt on, stalking ain't gonna work. You have to sit on your butt and wait. In these areas you have to manage your land, by feeding the correct time, not shooting but certain game. It takes a lot of skill to kill in limited space when the animal can see and or smell you long before you know it is anywhere near you. Those binoculars do not work around trees.

    Rosewood
    Evangelical, deplorable redneck and proud of it.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    East Central Illinois
    Posts
    2,454
    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Stalking may be well and good when you have thousands of acres of open terrain. However, if you hunt in dense forest and only have 60 acres that you have permission to hunt on, stalking ain't gonna work. You have to sit on your butt and wait. In these areas you have to manage your land, by feeding the correct time, not shooting but certain game. It takes a lot of skill to kill in limited space when the animal can see and or smell you long before you know it is anywhere near you. Those binoculars do not work around trees.

    Rosewood

    ^^^

    Yup
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  5. #65
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    1,483
    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    Stalking may be well and good when you have thousands of acres of open terrain. However, if you hunt in dense forest and only have 60 acres that you have permission to hunt on, stalking ain't gonna work. You have to sit on your butt and wait. In these areas you have to manage your land, by feeding the correct time, not shooting but certain game. It takes a lot of skill to kill in limited space when the animal can see and or smell you long before you know it is anywhere near you. Those binoculars do not work around trees.

    Rosewood
    Totally agree. I've been hunting a 28 acre plot since 1996. This doesn't mean I don't scout it to find the hot trails and rubs. Yes often they are in the same areas but sometimes not.

    Motor

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
    dk17hmr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    2,061
    If binos don't work around trees a long range shot isn't going to happen anyways.

    Hunting in the west is different than hunting in the east.

    There are approximately 200 head of elk in this picture, that is taken through my binos from close to 2000 yards away this year when I was hunting.


    Here's a couple doe standing at 40 yards from the ground blind I hunted in when I was in Michigan.



    Most people it seems that have negative opinions on taking a bit longer shot are use to looking at the second picture and not the first.
    Doug
    .................................................. ........................................
    Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

    Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting

    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle

  7. #67
    Moderator Emeritus


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SW Montana
    Posts
    10,133
    Quote Originally Posted by Soundguy View Post
    I just can't imagine shooting an animal 800 yards away.. and then walking that extra 800 yards thru teraine, and then hump that load back, plus how far I had already walked before I shot it.

    I'd rather be a better stalker and shoot something at +/- 100 yards, and know what's between me and the dropped game.

    How many of us have been hiking , seen a point we wanted to get to thru a clearing that was 5-7-800 yds away.. and then start traveling thru the underbrush to get there only to find out that 400 yds away you have to cross a stream or a ravine or a ridge you can't scale and have to divert a 1/4 mile to get around...

    Where I live, you can't take more than a +/- 100 yard shot anyway just due to natural barriers.
    You would probably have a tough time elk hunting 5 miles from the truck then. Not all circumstances are the same as others.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  8. #68
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    3,002
    To each his own.
    For a cast bullet deer rifle I designed for accuracy and excess power for 200 yards, my personal shooting accuracy limitation in the field.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	38LC.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	56.6 KB 
ID:	211501

    Turned out I never dropped one past 130.

  9. #69
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    17,129
    Quote Originally Posted by dk17hmr View Post
    If binos don't work around trees a long range shot isn't going to happen anyways.

    Hunting in the west is different than hunting in the east.

    There are approximately 200 head of elk in this picture, that is taken through my binos from close to 2000 yards away this year when I was hunting.


    Here's a couple doe standing at 40 yards from the ground blind I hunted in when I was in Michigan.



    Most people it seems that have negative opinions on taking a bit longer shot are use to looking at the second picture and not the first.
    Maybe so, but I have crawled on territory just as open as the top photo, and killed antelope and deer with revolvers and flintlocks. Actually, that picture shows a lot more cover than much I've hunted successfully.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  10. #70
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    1,850
    Western WA the trees are thick as heck in places; Usual place I camp almost is so closed in as to make ya claustrophobic. Eastern WA is more like dk17hmr's first picture.

    If your knees are TOAST, also, you aren't going to be stalking anything faster than a 5 gallon bucket, really, till they get replaced. (Some day, at the choice of Dr.'s and Insurance Companies. If there's a tail wind and no rain.) I am not exactly pleased at their stalling me, it bites. Try a 2000 yard stalk when you walk with a cane & your back cramps up if you go too far, so you get to carry a camp chair along too, if you want to have "fun" some day... I use a cart to camp away from the car, it helps but the whole thing's slow & annoying. Working on getting things better.

    On that article - If you just skim the start of the article - It's acknowledged that Forest Fire Lookouts CAN become experts at estimating distances. Some I guess take it to mean that us mere hunters, obviously, are incompetent idiots who are incapable of any such learning... If you don't read the whole article, I guess you could get that from it. If you read a little more, you get that some CAN, just a rare few. Those folks undoubtedly ate their Wheaties and Spinach as a kid, are teetotalers, leap tall buildings with a single bound, have Spidey Senses, and give 400% of their income to charity... They wrestle tigers with one hand and Lions with the other, at the same time, and always win. Sheesh.

    In the article - The figures he gives are for a random selection of Military Recruits, which is NOT the same as a selection of trained Varmint Hunters. And, he says that they reduced their error a lot, with 12 weeks of training. (My dad was a marksman trainer in the Army, none of that rubbed off on me at all tho, and he never taught me anything about shooting :P If you believe THAT, I have some nice beach front land in Kansas for sale, it fronts on every ocean on earth, is VERY reasonably priced, and comes with a pile of gold bars and a larger pile of Lyman #2 in the front yard :P Also that's where the Swedish Volleyball Team practices. Honest. :P)

    More in a bit.

  11. #71
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    1,850
    Do any of you who are against taking longer shots even on varmints, suppose that a good Varmint Hunter would ever keep training their eyeball for distance estimation at all? In my experience - Varmint Hunting folks do things up to ranging everything they see, mentally; They use city blocks (Just over 100 yards, for a "typical" block, at 311 feet, that's 94.7928 meters for you SI-using folks) and they recalibrate their eyeball about daily for that short range, if in the city - and the next block, and the next. And - shockingly - You can do this too, to become a better hunter. (If you just call a block 100 yards, and know the trajectory of your rifle well, you're going to be shooting pretty much spot on for any pistol or rifle that doesn't have a mortar-like trajectory... If you learn to handle windage too, that'd be wise. It's ALL learnable. If I could learn it at 10 years old, you can even tho you may be an old 'un like I am now.)

    M-Tecs has it right on Prairie Dogs; Any Pest / Varmint species, they just want dead. By any means possible. It's the same situation for Wild Hogs in the southern states; If you think helicopter-borne shooters never wound a hog and lose it, you really might want to rethink that. Yes, they're not shooting at as long of ranges as we were, irregardless they just need the Hogs harvested as they're insanely destructive. (Also you don't need a helicopter to hunt Chucks...) And, wild hogs are a lot tougher than a Chuck, it's not a "if you hit it, it is almost always DRT" situation with hogs. Yet people here get upset about Chucks, and forget that the same thing happens only more so with Hogs? Odd.

  12. #72
    Boolit Master
    dk17hmr's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wyoming
    Posts
    2,061
    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Maybe so, but I have crawled on territory just as open as the top photo, and killed antelope and deer with revolvers and flintlocks. Actually, that picture shows a lot more cover than much I've hunted successfully.
    As have I, it usually takes about 3 weeks to get all the thorns out, four years ago I killed an elk out of that desert herd with my bow at 32 yards spot and stalk. Those elk this year were on edge because of the number of trucks running around. I had several opportunities to fill my tag with what some might consider an extreme long range shot but I wasn’t comfortable or the animals were fidgety. I was able to get inside 300 to fill my freezer.

    I still feel long range is relative to the area you hunt and that’s what the pictures are suppose to illustrate. When my warm up cold bore shots during the summer are 1000 yards plus confidence is high when a 300-500 yard shot presents itself in the right situation.
    Doug
    .................................................. ........................................
    Sticks and stones may break my bones but hollow points expand on impact.

    Taxidermists are cheaper than surgeons....keep shooting

    ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Some people measure success in Minutes of Angle

  13. #73
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    fairbanks
    Posts
    9,005
    I have never considered myself to be a good shot, and even hunting in the west considered 200 yards a long shot. I can not count the amount of game I have passed on, especially elk that was well under 200 yards, but the difficulty of packing out would have been bad to say the least.

    Extreme long ranges does give the animal way more time to move, not because someone is shooting at them, they don't know that yet, but just to be moving, they just have to move a few inches to make all the difference in the world.

    When I was young I duck hunted some down close enough to Houston that there would be too many hunters, you could always count on two things, there would be a blind somewhere on the lake with a hunter or two that thought his 3 in magnums would drop a duck at a half a mile, and there would always be at least one blind with someone with a duck call that sounded like a wounded mountain lion.
    Sometimes you wanted to shoot the hunters.

  14. #74
    Boolit Master
    white eagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    565.5 miles E.of Wall Drug
    Posts
    4,799
    round here we call that public land
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  15. #75
    my longest shot on a deer is something like 250 yards, there was no laser range finders, just your eye. there are a few that go 100-200 yards but the deer are in close. i'd say 20-40 yards. my take on cast boolits is 200 yards. jacketed bullets is around 300 yards. i like to hunt close and that means a 44mag/spl, 45 colt, 444, 45-70, 50-70, 50-110 and my soon to be favorite, the 500 linebaugh. i do archery hunt but lately i do crossbow more and more. 40 yards is enough for me. i might try muzzleloader season again, 50 cal with 80gr of ffg using a maxiball or a roundball will be used in my flintlock.

    if i go groundhog hunting(or shooting), i'd say 300-400 yards is tops for me.

  16. #76
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Pacific NorthWet
    Posts
    1,850
    Minuteshaver - It's a massive over generalization though.

    Yeah, a hunter who shoots 20 rounds in a year won't have the same level of competency as someone who has a clue on varminting or someone who shoots long range professionally. Obviously. Does that make it a good idea for us to go tell the folks at the national rifle championships, what horrible hunters they'd be if they took "long shots" at game, ever? Especially when we don't really define "Long".

    Learn your competence level and shoot within that and the limitations of your gun / ammo and the weather conditions - THAT isn't an over generalization. The original article contains a few over generalizations tho...

    Here's another example -

    "People who drive over 70 MPH are horribly scary, dangerous drivers, and should never be allowed to drive." Is that true for some drivers? Definitely a few I saw today would be scary at 90 MPH, not that it stops them from going that fast...

    BUT - Just what sort of reception you think you'll get if you go say that to the guys who drive NASCAR, Grand Prix, or compete professionally, in any form of racing where you practice regularly, have a vast store of expertise, have lightning fast reflexes, and in general live to race at high speeds?

    Over generalizations are just that - OVER generalizations. They don't really serve us well. Language can be as high precision a tool as your best target rifle - IF you use it well and don't just spray random words at people. Have to define what you mean though - That's what's bugging me. What the author means by "LONG distance" could be shown with a couple examples - but isn't. And then they make conclusions from vagueness... They could talk of ethics, but don't. They just disapprove of "Those People" without giving any way to see what they really mean.

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    The 13th colony
    Posts
    519
    One big problem with that article, it was written in 1961. Since then, we have range finders, we have BDC reticles, phone apps that give us bullet drop and inexpensive rifles that will out shoot the custom rifles of that day. Not to mention improvements in bullets, BCs and even gun powders. We no longer have to estimate or guess as we once did. We just have to know how to use our equipment.
    Evangelical, deplorable redneck and proud of it.

  18. #78
    Boolit Master
    DerekP Houston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    2,874
    Quote Originally Posted by ammohead View Post
    Some factual information. The time from when a hunter commits to taking the shot till when the sear breaks is about .3 seconds. The amount of time it takes a 140gr bullet from a 6.5 Creedmoor to travel 800 yards is approx 1 full second. 1.3 seconds is enough time for a deer to take two steps forward and you just gut shot him. No amount of practice, exterior ballistics data and wind doping is going to bring that bullet back. That should be enough fact to make any hunter do some serious soul searching before taking that shot. But we now have hunting shows that promote this very thing. So much so that a 800 yard shot at a bull elk is on many hunters bucket list.
    Still a dearless hunter here, but that sums up my opinion on the matter nicely.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

  19. #79
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    31
    My hunting looks a lot like the top picture as well. Not knocking the long distance shooting, but you really miss out on something not closing in.... It is worth the thorns.

  20. #80
    Boolit Master


    Soundguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    N Central Florida
    Posts
    1,296
    I want to hear my prey grunting, clucking or bleating.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check