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Thread: Long shots are for bad hunters, article

  1. #81
    Boolit Man GEOMETRIC's Avatar
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    Obviously, your hunting tactics have to match the situation. If your equipment & your skills are up to long shots, go for it! I've hunted in Taiwan, Washington State, California, Arkansas, Tennessee, N. Dakota, Manitoba, Virginia, N. Carolina & S. Carolina. You can get long shots here in S.C., such as when sitting over a 1,000+ acre bean field or over looking 20 square miles of salt marsh. However, that is the exception & not the usual hunting situation here. Deer know they are vulnerable when they are in the open. Don't get me wrong, I'm not above shooting deer over corn. I've never done it but I would, & the sit & wait game is probably the most productive. Most of the deer hunters here could never kill a deer if they couldn't use corn for bait. Stand hunting takes skill too. You have to know where the deer are likely to move & you have to know how to keep them from smelling or detecting you. Idiots don't get many shots, even over corn. The right equipment also helps. I remember a friend who had a horse shoe stuck you know where. If he climbed in a tree, a buck would walk under it. He was sitting in a tree with a rig that would have been right for a prairie hunt but when a buck walked under his tree @ 25 yds. or so, all he could see in his 10X scope was hair & he couldn't tell what part of the deer that hair came from.

  2. #82
    Boolit Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    The very best of the long range hunting bullets/calibers have 60 or 70 inches of wind drift at a 1,000 yards with a full value 10 mph wind. A 308 using a Sierra 168 grain bullet has 109 inches of drift at a 1,000 yards.

    Reading wind/mirage is a skill that takes lots of practice and rounds down range. Some very experienced shooters are very good at it. They are a small minority.

  3. #83
    Boolit Master


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    Long shots and the equipment capable of making them aren't my cup of tea but I'm familiar with much of the technology and know that it works. I also know that most hunters (including me!) are terrible at range estimation and their shooting skills are certainly not what they should be for the longer shots. I'm comfortable with targets out to 200 yds and occasionally shoot much further but in a big game hunting situation I generally won't even raise my rifle for deer over 150 yds because I know I'll get a much closer shot if I'm patient. Many times I'm hunting with a peep-sighted levergun so my shots are even shorter.
    OTOH I like the recent upsurge in popularity of long range (Tactical! ) shooting because I think it will make equipment better and more affordable for the folks who need it in occupational or competition applications.
    Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
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  4. #84
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfer View Post
    I can nearly always cover my first shot with a dime.
    That's funny...never thought of it that way...I guess that finding where it went so you can cover it with a dime is the real trick!

    you could alway fire 2 more ....and swear that they went thru the same hole

  5. #85
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    I read a quote somewhere attributed to a famous African hunter "Get as close as you can and then get 10 yards closer"
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

    Will Geer as Bear Claw in "Jeramiah Johnson"

  6. #86
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GEOMETRIC View Post
    If he climbed in a tree, a buck would walk under it. He was sitting in a tree with a rig that would have been right for a prairie hunt but when a buck walked under his tree @ 25 yds. or so, all he could see in his 10X scope was hair & he couldn't tell what part of the deer that hair came from.
    This is why I always have a 10mm on my side when in the woods.

    Rosewood
    Evangelical, deplorable redneck and proud of it.

  7. #87
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    One big problem with that article, it was written in 1961. Since then, we have range finders, we have BDC reticles, phone apps that give us bullet drop and inexpensive rifles that will out shoot the custom rifles of that day. Not to mention improvements in bullets, BCs and even gun powders. We no longer have to estimate or guess as we once did. We just have to know how to use our equipment.
    The electronic stuff are crutches. Sometime those things may not work and you will have to learn to be a rifleman, rather than a tech junkie.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    the electronic stuff are crutches. Sometime those things may not work and you will have to learn to be a rifleman, rather than a tech junkie.
    amen!!!!!

  9. #89
    Boolit Master
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    I don't see the appeal of long range killing. My goal has always been to get as close to the game animal as possible. It's much more exciting for me up close and personal. I'd rather pass on a kill if I can't get within 150 yards. One other thing, a miss on a game animal may as well be a wounding hit, it's just luck that it was a clean miss. Don't take a shot unless you know it will be a one shot kill. We aren't at war with our game and none of us would starve without the meat.
    I was a dog on a short chain
    and now there’s no chain.
    Jim Harrison 1937 -2016

  10. #90
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    The electronic stuff are crutches. Sometime those things may not work and you will have to learn to be a rifleman, rather than a tech junkie.
    YES! If your goal is long range precision there's no substitute for putting rounds downrange. Lots of rounds.
    Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
    Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
    I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
    Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.

  11. #91
    Boolit Master woodbutcher's Avatar
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    One of the best places that I had to hunt in Fl was a FP&L power line ROW.Could drive to the place that I hunted.I could drive to within about 200 yds of where I set up.Took a camp stool to set on and was 100 yds from the game trail that came out onto the ROW.Took many deer and hogs from my set up spot.That was a range that I was very comfortable with.Would I shoot farther?Not on game.Punching paper?Yes.Rifle was a Sears Mod 53 in 30-06.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  12. #92
    Boolit Master
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    You guys are knocking technology. I don't see u guys shooting muskets with smooth bores, or black powder in these rifles. A rifled barrel, scopes, smokeless powder were probably all knocked when they came out, they were improvements in technology. Use what you got.

    I could make the same comment u guys did using a scope over iron sights, the crosshair could break....
    Evangelical, deplorable redneck and proud of it.

  13. #93
    Boolit Master
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    Regardless of the technology, u have to know how to use it and practice a lot.
    Evangelical, deplorable redneck and proud of it.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by historicfirearms View Post
    I don't see the appeal of long range killing. My goal has always been to get as close to the game animal as possible. It's much more exciting for me up close and personal. I'd rather pass on a kill if I can't get within 150 yards. One other thing, a miss on a game animal may as well be a wounding hit, it's just luck that it was a clean miss. Don't take a shot unless you know it will be a one shot kill. We aren't at war with our game and none of us would starve without the meat.
    The rule of thumb when hunting Elk and Moose is if it is still standing keep shooting. Some animals take a while to know they are dead.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  15. #95
    Boolit Master
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    What's your point? Don't take the first shot unless you are sure it's a kill shot. Seems like everyone has to be argumentative these days.
    I was a dog on a short chain
    and now there’s no chain.
    Jim Harrison 1937 -2016

  16. #96
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    You guys are knocking technology. I don't see u guys shooting muskets with smooth bores, or black powder.
    I take my 69 cal smooth bore 1842 springfield replica ( Dixie/Chiappa ) out nearly every time I shoot. it doesn't even have a rear sight!

    a 67.5 cal handcast ball patched tight and cut at the muzzle over 70-75 grains pyrodex RS and at 50 yards i'll hit a hog all day... at 70 yards, that shot becomes quite iffy and I get into % chance to hit.

  17. #97
    Boolit Master opos's Avatar
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    Got to tell a little story on myself...I was going to college in the mid 50's in Fort Collins, Colorado...also working in a little old gun and boat shop after school...just really getting into big game hunting..had shot a couple of deer with a 30-30 and had one elk that was a 2 man shoot. It came time a buddy asked me if I wanted to go speed goat (antelope--pronghorn) hunting...you bet I did...he was a good hunter and figured I'd learn from him...problem was the only rifle I had was a bone stock 1917 Enfield that was going to get "sporterized" when I had the money and the time....I had some 150 grain (as I recall) Remington Core lock ammo...and off we went...didn't much give a thought to the weight of the Enfield...I was in my early 20's and strong as an ox..but I soon found out hunting antelope would be better served with a much lighter, flatter shooting rifle.

    We crept up over a rise and there were a number of antelope sort of easing along and probably 250-300 yards away...My buddy said "now" and we raised up to shoot..of course the goats were gone like a shot....I don't remember the shot but the gun went bang and my antelope sort of "broke in half" and flew through the air upside down...hit the ground and didn't move...my buddy was just sort of standing there looking at what I'd done and patting me on the back and yelling nice shot.

    As with everything in life things change...That shot and kill was an absolute fluke...it's a wonder I didn't hit a car on the highway or shoot a house....and of course at my young age I figured shooting speed goat at full run at about 250 yards with a military battle ax was just good shooting...My next few antelope kills over the next few years brought me back to earth.

    Same with Deer and Elk...I hunted with the fabled "400 yard shooters" on occasion and saw a lot of animals wasted and just missed....my program shifted dramatically from long shots to "get them to sit on the front sight" kinds of shots....more fun...more sporting and way more productive in the long run...
    Tell me anything..I might or might not believe it...but nobody ever had a better running antelope shot with a milsurp in full battle dress than my first one.

  18. #98
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer


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    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    You guys are knocking technology. I don't see u guys shooting muskets with smooth bores, or black powder in these rifles. A rifled barrel, scopes, smokeless powder were probably all knocked when they came out, they were improvements in technology. Use what you got.

    I could make the same comment u guys did using a scope over iron sights, the crosshair could break....
    I regularly shoot smoothbore flinters, and we compete out to 1500 yards with BPCR rifles. Your argument doesn't hold water.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
    You guys are knocking technology. I don't see u guys shooting muskets with smooth bores, or black powder in these rifles. A rifled barrel, scopes, smokeless powder were probably all knocked when they came out, they were improvements in technology. Use what you got.

    I could make the same comment u guys did using a scope over iron sights, the crosshair could break....

    ah yes, the old saw still works. although i don't believe it.

    old and slow still beats young and fast.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7NuVjpi72c

  20. #100
    Boolit Master
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    All the technology in the world, the flattest shooting round in the world, understanding wind drift and all the practice in the world, all adds up. The quarry has not changed so does not know he isn't suppose to turn, take a step, whatever between the time the trigger is squeezed and the projectile hitting it's intended mark.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check