HELP !!!...H110 Powder..!!!

[sargeny1]

Hi All...Just got back from the range...WHAT, if anything, can be done to solve the problem of UNBURNED powder when using H110..????? Here are the particulars...S&W 5" M27 1968 vintage....3579" throats and .3571" BBL Groove Diam....Bullet is H&G #51 Lyman #2 Alloy weighs at 150grains and sized to .358"...case is starline...cci 550 primer...15.5 grains of H110...OAL is 1.610"...bullet pull is tight and crimp is firm into the crimp groove.....2 to 3" groups at 50 feet off a benchrest...!!!!!! The benchrest is SOLID......I suspect the powder charge may be a little toooo light.....????
What say ye learned gentlemen..???
Thanks..
Pete

[Cactus Farmer]

Ball powders have a narrower range of useable weights. Look at winchester 296.
It explains it better. Change to a double based powder,ie,2400,Blue Dot,ect. they are much more flexable as to loading densitys. Magnum primers are not necessary either. Slightly to much dirtier but sure fire stuff. I've been spoiled by 2400 for 50 years. Still one of my favorites.....YMMV

Lewis

[.38 Special]

You're a half grain under Hodgdon's start load. In my experience, H110 needs to be run close to full throttle before the "unburned powder" problem goes away. Another grain of powder might be magic, in this case.

HTH!

[sargeny1]

THANKS GUYS.....YES..it does seem that my load may be on the light side....we are all so worried about high pressures and maximum loads......I just printed out Hodgdon's Load Data for 357 with H110 and I am indeed 1/2 grain under start load for 150gr bullets...

Thanks for your help all...
Pete

[runfiverun]

some powders just flat burn better in a certain pressure range 110 is one of them as is 4831.
110 is an all or nothing powder, it has a narrow range, high.
keep it there and it does what it does best.

[shotman]

have you tried tite group? will save a lot of money the main thing with 110 is works better if compressed [410 load] shotman

[yondering]

With that light load, you might be getting incomplete ignition, although with H110 usually you'd notice inconsistency between shots, some would be weak and others would feel strong (unless you're way low, then they might all feel weak).

Another possibility: If you are seeing yellow or other lightly colored granules in the bore, that's not "unburned" powder, that is residue from the burned powder. This is normal with H110, even at max loads. It doesn't mean anything bad, it's just the way it is.

If you aren't trying for max loads, don't use H110. It's a simple rule that makes your powder choice easier.

[JesterGrin_1]

With H-110 and W-296 you should not reduce the load more than 3%. They have a narrow loading range. These powders are made for full power loads or close to it. A tip I got here from 44Man is to use a standard primer and not a mag primer unless you are in Alaska lol. Or should say very cold temps.

As said before if you wish to have a good .44 Mag round that is cheap and will not beat you. Try the TightGroup .44 Mag with a 240Gr CAST BOOLIT ,5.5Gr of TightGroup and a standard primer. Nice round to shoot.

This is just an example not set it stone lol. Look up and make sure of your loadings before you use my advice or anyone elses. You can do so by going to http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

On a side note when working up loads with Tightgroup take note that the pressure with increased powder charges goes up fast. I know the loading data says you can go up to 10.0gr of Tightgroup but I had pressure signs and problems at 8.5gr of Tightgroup. So be careful.

[bobk]

Check out some old manuals. Some of today's loads are yesteryear's starting loads. An old Speer manual lists 17.7 as max with a 158 jacketed. I am going to accuracy-test 17.3-158XTP-Federal small RIFLE primer, hopefully today, out of my 1894C. It burns fairly clean.
Bob K

[sargeny1]

Thanks to all who responded...It seems my loads are too light..and I am using the CCI 550 Magnum primer...If you look up Hodgdon's Load Data center, the loads are listed using presumably JACKETED bullets....My H&G #51 HOLLOW POINT CAST Bullets weigh in at 143grains...Can I use the Hodgdon Data listed with CAST bullets..??? Would YOU..???
Thanks Again to all...
Pete

[.38 Special]

My personal experience with standard primers and H110 has been poor, so I heartily endorse the use of the magnum caps.

I personally am not comfortable substituting jacketed data for cast bullets, but know a number of people who have done it without trouble. I just wonder if there are a number of people who have done it with trouble and just keep it to themselves!

I personally would use data for the 158 grain load, working up to maximum or slightly over, until I got clean burn. In truth, though, I would not select H110 for a light bullet load. By the time I'm using +/-140 grains, I'm looking at Unique or perhaps Titegroup.

HTH!

[bobk]

Another choice, which I often use. Pretty clean.
Bob K

[badgeredd]

You're a half grain under Hodgdon's start load. In my experience, H110 needs to be run close to full throttle before the "unburned powder" problem goes away. Another grain of powder might be magic, in this case.

HTH!

+1 on that. Including the near full charge with H-110.

[Scrounger]

Another choice, which I often use. Pretty clean.
Bob K

Once again only at near maximum loading levels like H110/WW296.

This question about using slow burning powders in light loads comes up once a week. Did they quit selling loading manuals? Just stick to book loads till you come to an understanding of powder burn rates and pressures.

[James C. Snodgrass]

Sorta like BobK I run them up to the top. I have never seen the need for a rifle primer though. I never have had a primer flow back and hang one up . I know you can run a bullet that light to 1550 fps or more easily out of a 5" n frame. As far as dirty goes I have always thought that 2400 was dirty but I've not had any issues cleaning it up. Good luck James

[sargeny1]

HMMM...ok..the consensus is that maybe H110 is too slow a powder for bullets lighter than 158GR...??? Yet Hodgdon lists loads all the way down to 110gr. JACKETED....AND is there a consensus on using Hodgdon's presumably JACKETED load data with CAST bullets approximating the weight of Jacketed bullets..???? I am NOT looking for a LIGHT load.....I want to drive those H&G 143gr HOLLOW POINTS as FAST as possible in my S&W 357 N Frames for hunting...
Thanks to all..
Pete

[Mack Heath]

HMMM...ok..the consensus is that maybe H110 is too slow a powder for bullets lighter than 158GR...???Pete

I think you are drawing the wrong conclusion here. H-110 works just fine with the lighter bullets. In fact it is quite popular with the 125 JHPs. I would just get the powder charge up. I am not familiar with the design of your bullet, but I have used the Lyman 358477 a fair amount with H-110. Lyman's max load used to be 17.7 grains, IIRC. They have reduced it now to 17.0. I went up from their minimum of 16.3 to 17.3 and stopped where I did only because that is where one of my powder bushing dropped at. The loads worked just fine, and the max ran something like 1375 fps.

I would just try to get the powder charge up to where it needs to be.

[HeavyMetal]

I am about to load up some 296 in 357 case with the rcbs 150 grain cast boolit.

No need to discuss charge weight as your doing H 110. If I was going to load H-110 I'd start at 16.2 grains and use a standard primer for 20 rounds and a magnum primer for 20 rounds.

Shoot over sand bags at 25 yards and see which load works better in your gun If the primer makes a difference you'll see it here! Once you determine if a difference exist ( if any) you can use the primer that works best and work up from there.

Be aware hot loads aren't always the most accurate! I have often traded 110FPS for a 2 inch group instead of a 3 inch one!

[sargeny1]

Dear mack and heavy mtl....YES...my charge of H110 is not enough....Mack..the H&G #51 is a almost clone of the Lyman 358477....supposed to be 160gr in solid form...but I have a Hollow Point version by Hensley & Gibbs and my bullets weigh in at 143grains in hollow point form...wish they were a heavier...I am going to follow Hodgdon's data ....which indicate that my charges are toooo LIGHT.....
Thanks to all for your help...
Pete

[JesterGrin_1]

Okay here you go from a Marlin 1894 P.357Mag

There are two shots near the top before a sight correction.

Then the bottom three after sight correction. Maybe I blinked since it is off a bit. But total is 5 shots at 100Yards.




These Marlins just do not shoot worth the beans lol.