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Thread: Considering Monthly Load Tests ( ladder type)

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    I am considering taking up a project that I have been pondering since I have been researching for info on Cold Weather ladder testing of some powders & have thought that I may , if that particular project stalls, try a different sort of testing just for the sake of the doing of it.

    My project would entail taking loads for the handguns I reload & shoot, from the manuals I consult & test ladder loads each month of the year to see how the powders I choose to test perform throughout the year from Jan- Dec. change as to velocity as the temperatures go up & down. Then compare those results.

    {An hypothetical example is testing the Lyman Manual #49, or Cast Bullet Manual load range for a 230gr LTC or L2R boolit in a 45ACP with 4.2gr - 4.7gr. pushed by Hodgdons 700X in a Starline case, CCI LPP at 0.01gr steps, and comparing those results each month of the year.}

    I have 3 powders which I am considering ( just like in the other topic) & they are Alliant Red Dot, and Hodgdons 700X & Clays. I may also add in Alliant Bullseye as well.

    The other components will remain the same type each as far as case, primer(applicable size to caliber/type of case) & projectile(s) for each caliber handgun tested.

    I realize that I am not using the exact type firearms that were used in the manuals, but that is not what I am looking for. What I am looking for is answers to how temperature & such weather factors (Humidity, Bar. Press.,etc.) have an effect on each of the powders performance throughout the year.

    Keeping the other components the same each time I test the loads with the only change being the temperature & other "weather related" factors should provide some interesting data, IMO.

    I am trying to decide if I should load up all of the ammunition at one time and then test each month, or, load the ammo to be tested each month as I go thru the calendar from Jan. - Dec..

    Since I already have all of & enough of the components, I also have to decide which ones to use out of the different components. I also have to decide what I may want to use as a "calibration" sort of "benchmark", like a certain factory ammo in a caliber of either something like a .22, which is relatively easy to use & is not one of the calibers to be tested, or use factory ammo for each caliber each month instead.

    I am posting this topic in the hopes that it will not get convoluted like the other topic seems to he. I am hoping that if there are any comments and suggestions, that they will be "on topic" & are intended to assist & not detract from this "experiment/project".

    I would hope that others here who have done something of this sort before, will post up what they might add, and that if there are any suggestions about things I have not covered in this post & should take under consideration in order to do this sort of testing in a worthwhile manner, that those folks would post here also.

    If someone is the sort who would post just to detract & discourage me, or anyone else from doing this type of testing, please note that I do not intend to reply to such posts, as I believe they take away from the intent of sharing this type of testing for the knowledge of the results that may happen, as well as the possible benefits it may have for others.

    If anyone else would like to do the same sort of testing for their own sake & in their own particular environment, such as another state or country with a different environment; I think it would be nice to be able to compare the resulting data for any similarity or differences.

    I hope this works out to be a very interesting & informative topic, and I invite folks to try to get involved here in a helpful way to see if we can all gain some more knowledge & insights into what is possible to discover by the doing of this sort of endeavor.


    {Note - I think I typed this clearly enough & offered enough info to get the ball rolling. If not, asking politely for me to include such info would certainly be acceptable & likely helpful as well.}

    So, does anyone have any helpful suggestions?
    Last edited by JBinMN; 01-03-2018 at 08:59 PM. Reason: experimental

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    I think that loading all the ammo at the same time will ensure greater uniformity than loading throughout the year. You could, of course, segregate all components at the beginning of the year but loading at different times brings in such variables of loading as humidity at the time of loading, possible varying degrees of crimp, etc.
    Loading all at once should allow you to then test only the effect of ambient conditions at the time of firing.
    Just my 2 cents.
    God Bless, Whisler

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    You can speed up your testing by using a cooler to store your ammunition and a thermometer to check the temperature in the cooler.

    Freeze the first few batches. They will be your coldest samples. Add more ammunition after each string and wait for the temperature to level out. Test at the next level up. Keep doing that for each test.

    Bring another cooler with more ice if you need more cooling. You can use handwarmers to increase temperatures as needed.

    I would load all the ammunition at one time. Keep everything as consistent as possible. For more consistentcy, use factory jacketed or swaged bullets.
    Don Verna

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks for the suggestions so far!


    *** Long post alert, but I do not know how to answer with brevity & still explain my thoughts and answer posts thru typing any other way... You are welcome to skip it if ya like, but ya won't know what I say then...LOL Here I go... *****

    Just to understand the #s first, so folks will realize it. Only using 1 firearm to test 1/2 of a grain with 10 shots each 0.1 step of a ladder = 50 rounds. Take that 50 rounds time 3 powders in the same firearm = 150 rounds per month. Take the 150 rounds per month for a year X 12 = 1800 rounds to make for a years worth of testing 1 firearm with 3 powders in a range of 0.5 grains(like 4.2gr. to 4.6gr.) at increments of 0.1 grain each per month.

    To test, let's say 3 firearms, a 9MM, a 38Sp., & a 45ACP using 3 powders would be 5400 rounds for a monthly one year test. (3 x 1800 = 5400)

    Right now it I reckon it takes me about 1 hour to 1 & 1/4 hrs (1:15) per 50 rounds, in batches. Meaning 50 sized/deprimed/change die, 50 expanded/change die, 50 primed /change die, 50 powder & boolit/bullet seated/change die & then boolit/bullet crimped, all using a single stage press (turret press might be faster, but I doubt it. I have not yet used turret press for setting up ladder tests, just single stage only.) from primer to finished round & weighing each load individually like one would do for any ladder test to make sure that each load was the same for each step of the 5 step ladder. (This is not counting any case prep, only counting sizing/expand/prime/powder to seated & crimped boolit/bullet for a finished round.) So lets just say it is an hour per 50 rounds using 1 powder, even though it could be longer.

    150 rounds would be about 3 hours minimum for 3 powders and just 1 firearm. Doing 3 powders for 3 firearms would be 9 hours(1 months worth). Then 12 months worth for 3 firearm using 3 powders would be 108 hours. At 8 hour days/ 40hrs per week, it would take me about 2.7 weeks just to get it all done for a years worth of testing of 3 different powders in 3 different caliber firearms.. That is if I can keep the pace of about 1 round a minute minimum. ( I don't think I can do that, but for the sake of easy numbers that is what I used for time. If it took me 2 minutes per round, double that time into about 6 weeks rather than 2.7-3 weeks. It could be done straight thru with no breaks like a 40/hr week, but who is going to do that? Not me, anyway...

    My age & health issues & my schedule do not permit me to commit to that sort of a reloading schedule. So something has to be modified as far as putting together a years worth at one time. I can reduce the amount of firearms, reduce the amount of powders, reduce the amount of test rounds per firearm & per powder, and I think that is it for ways to reduce the time spent to get a years worth done all at once at the rate I mentioned above.

    Doing 3 powders in one firearm at the rate of 50/hr., would be 36 hours total to do complete for a years worth, or basically a week at 8 hrs day.and once again, that is assuming a minimum of 1 round per minute or so. Batch loading is steps it would be more like 1 in 2 minutes. And once again the health issues & schedule comes into play.

    I am gonna ponder on this, but I am thinking if "I" am going to do this sort of test, it is likely that I will be loading each batch once a month. Otherwise, I am going to have to stretch out the making of a years worth into maybe doing the loading over a couple months time & then I am defeating the purpose of loading all at once. The other thing is that I would be adding in to the deal is the length of time in storage.

    I am more inclined to test by doing each batch each week/month before shooting, just like I think many folks do. I know I do that a lot during the warmer months & then reload for storage & getting ahead of the game during the colder months. Which is why I wanted to test this anyway, since I have not done any testing & even don't do as much shooting during colder months since I shoot outdoors & not at an indoor range. BTW, I do not shoot competitively either, unless it is a "pick up" deal with family/buddies and a spur of the moment type thing... IOW, a "Betcha can't hit that.", type deal...

    My reloading area is in the basement of my house. It is kept closed up , except to go in or out the basement door on occasion. Year round it averages around 60F., IIRC. The humidity right now down there is 45% on the wall temp & hum. gauge. I don't recall the average for down there, but I think it is right around 50%. so, it is a pretty stable area for such factors. It is where the bulk of my components & stored ammo is for that reason also. I do not think that keeping the components there & then making up the rounds as I need them is going to have much effect on this sort of testing. Sure, it might, but I am trying to test for how performance is in temperature changes thru out the year, and it seems that includes the "average joe" wanting to go & load up some rounds for himself & go out & shoot that day/week/month, & not to make up the rounds & then store them for up to a year or more to shoot.

    I guess I will just have to ponder on this more & also see what others think.

    BTW, It would cost me way more than I would like to used "factory" style bullets/boolits. I would prefer to use the ones I cast instead & keep them in a relatively close tolerance of weight from one to another. JUst use some factory rounds as "benchmark" for making sure the chrony is staying accurate & such. Good idea though & if I could afford it I would do that also.


    Lastly, as far as temp of the rounds & firearms. I am going to use "ambient air" as each month goes by to test the performance with that factor(s) to see how things change over the year, so keeping the rounds in an artificial environment such as a cooler, iced or not is not what I wanted to test. I plan to take the ammo to be tested & the firearm(s) out into the air 24 hrs before the test for them to "acclimatize" to the outside air & then test. That way I am testing the powders in each months temps as they change thru out the year & are not to be affected by other factors.
    ^I hope I said that well enough..^ Hmmm..

    Thanks again for your suggestion posts & sorry for the length, but it is hard to answer in a shorter way for me. Believe me that if I could I would.. This amount of typing is hard on me...

    P.S. - If anyone wants to check my math. That would be great. I am pretty sure I got it right, but I certainly might be wrong.
    Last edited by JBinMN; 01-04-2018 at 03:18 AM. Reason: Of course. Long post.. What do ya expect?
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    If you do this, some preliminary work may be needed as I believe there is a minor effect from a .1 gr difference in powder charge that will be affected by other variables. But that needs to be verified.

    For example, what is the effect of brass? Will you use all once fired? Mixed head stamps? 9mm and .45 may be more forgiving as they are taper crimped, but if you roll crimp the .38’s, trim length will affect crimp and pressure.

    If you cannot use commercial bullets from the same lot, Do you have a consistent alloy? I use 92-2-6 commercial foundry lead. Nothing magic about it but it is relatively hard and easy to cast with.

    To keep work at a reasonable level, consider .2 gr. Increments. That will reduce your loading and testing by 50%. If you see a significant change at some point between .2 gr loads, test in between only then.

    Good luck!
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    If you do this, some preliminary work may be needed as I believe there is a minor effect from a .1 gr difference in powder charge that will be affected by other variables. But that needs to be verified.

    Have not ever read/heard of that "minor effect" other than the change from one step to another. And yes, by Chrony I have seen differences so far in ones I have tested in the warmer months even at that small a step. Please let me know where to find out more if ya can.

    For example, what is the effect of brass? Will you use all once fired? Mixed head stamps? 9mm and .45 may be more forgiving as they are taper crimped, but if you roll crimp the .38’s, trim length will affect crimp and pressure.

    Not sure of any effect, but I intend to use all of the same kind(same mnfr.) to prevent any.
    Yes, once fired, & as said above, all same manufacturer, as I do not have enough "new" brass to do even one caliber right now, thus NO mixed headstamps to help alleviate any difference in brass.. I will answer the last part (taper/roll crimp, etc.)towards the end of this post.


    If you cannot use commercial bullets from the same lot, Do you have a consistent alloy? I use 92-2-6 commercial foundry lead. Nothing magic about it but it is relatively hard and easy to cast with.

    Yes, my alloy is consistent and is 50/50 COWW/Pb. I also do BHN testing on it on occasion & it is relatively stable as far as that. Usually 10-12 IIRC.

    To keep work at a reasonable level, consider .2 gr. Increments. That will reduce your loading and testing by 50%. If you see a significant change at some point between .2 gr loads, test in between only then.

    Using the powders I mentioned and they are relatively small charges compared to other powders, and the load ranges from Start to Max are only about .5 -.7 grains apart, skipping steps to .2 grains from .1gr. would likely not be offering as accurate data. ( Example is 4.2gr -4.7gr for 700X in a 45ACP case with a 230gr boolit.) I will onder on this & see if you have some sort of link for me to read why .1 steps may have some issue.

    Good luck!
    Thanks!


    I am leaning towards just testing just 45ACP, using either once fired Winchester, Federal or R.-P. brass, either CCI or S&B LPP primers and cast 230 LTC or L2R boolits. Caldwell Ballistics Chrony set @ 10ft from muzzle, shooting @ 15 or 25 yds to target from muzzle. ( Have not narrowed down any of those choices listed above to a firm decision for each one as of yet.)

    The rounds will be taper crimped as a separate step.

    The boolits will be within 230gr +/- .1-2 grs. ( not decided on that range yet either.)

    The reason I am pretty much thinking to just do this with the 45ACP at this time, rather than also doing the 9MM, 38sp. either two total or, all 3, is due to time constraints & other types of issues as mentioned previously, and the 45ACP is the lowest pressure cartridge of the 3 for the most part. Thus, less chance for any overpressures.

    I do not have enough of any particular once fired same mnfr cases to do the whole year & not repeat fire those same cases. So, a variable is going to have to be considered as the cases go from once fired to 12 firings, if they make it that far without primer pocket/flash hole wear, possible splitting & the like. ( Case degradation from use) Not counting any possible overpressure signs that should not, but might come into play.

    I wish I had 1800 case of the same manfr. and/or new, instead of once fired, but I do not. So, I am going to have to consider how to account for that if I can. Suggestions are welcomed.

    I am going to try to run a first string of these on Sat. or Sun coming if I can get every thing decided & done by then. Temps are supposed to be around 12F sat. & 27F Sun & Mon.. 21F Tues, then 16F Wed. as of today. I would like to stay in the mid teens to low twenties for the Jan testing if not a bit lower. But, I can't predict temps, so I have to just do what I can.

    Well, I will stop there for now, and I tried to keep this post short. Hard to convey info & answer questions in a short manner, but I did the best I could.


    P.S> - I may reconsider doing one or both of the others , but starting later (Feb/Mar) & then ending later. I am going to keep track of the time it takes to do the first set of 45ACP loads & extrapolate time from there.
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  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Even if you picked your "best load" and tested it once a month 10 shots average hi low standard deviation and extreme spread it would give relevant data as to what you want concerning temp changes. It will make it easier to load a batch chronograph and compare. Another thing I would recommend is a "control" on your tests. Start with 10 rds over the chronograph from a spring cocker air rifle with the same pellets each time to verify set up and reading. Very little cost to the pellets and a lot of piece of mind knowing the set up is right ad reading consistant from set up to set up.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I appreciate the effort you are considering in this study. That said I think you may be trying to bite off too much.
    I think just two handgun cartridges would be sufficient, with only one boolit weight per cartridge. A 9mm and 45acp would be a good selection in that the working pressures are so different and can use different powders, but both cover the majority of working pressures in handguns with the exception of the large magnum calibers.
    I don't know how many different pistol powders you are considering testing(may have missed it) but I think I wouldn't get too many going at once. It will be too much work and expense as I believe you are finding out.
    Using a larger difference in the ladder loads would simplify things some and would still give you a good idea what is going on. If further testing seems warranted, there is always next year.
    If you load using the same equipment in the same environment(basement, temp, humidity) so conditions are stable and use powers and other components from the same lots, the loads should be a good test even if they are not loaded at the same time.
    I intend to follow this research and study your results. It sounds very interesting.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    JB...the more I read about this the less makes sense.

    Wasn't the original post about powders reacting differently to extreme temperature swings?
    Now your talking about monthly test? Don't know for sure but...up there where you live, aren't you basically living in a freezer for the next 3 months or so? -1*F. today and 30 days from now it's +3*F. give or take the wind chills and that stuff. What does a monthly test prove when for several months in a row it's just basically freezing up there?

    Originally I thought you were going to see what the difference is between (-)whatever*F. right now and the heat of your summer @+100*F. ...?
    You got me befuzzeled, maybe cause I'm too old and slow to comprehend your plan...sheeesh, I dunnoh!

    It looks like your making too much fuss over this and you'll never get off the ground cause of all the volume of loadings when it just ain't required?

    Enlighten me JB!
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master zymguy's Avatar
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    Because of the COLD youve had access to id encurage you to add one of the new powders that claim to be less temp sensitive. adding annother powder does add a lot more work, perhaps corser incriments to reduce total round count. Either way, ill watch/read good luck!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Even if you picked your "best load" and tested it once a month 10 shots average hi low standard deviation and extreme spread it would give relevant data as to what you want concerning temp changes. It will make it easier to load a batch chronograph and compare. Another thing I would recommend is a "control" on your tests. Start with 10 rds over the chronograph from a spring cocker air rifle with the same pellets each time to verify set up and reading. Very little cost to the pellets and a lot of piece of mind knowing the set up is right ad reading consistant from set up to set up.
    Thanks for your suggestions.

    Great idea for using a bb gun as a "benchmark" for chrony! I actually used a Red Ryder last Spring that I bought for my grandsons to learn gun safety & familiarity with using a firearm to test the chrony. I used it as the first test & use of that Caldwell Ballistics chrony before I ever used it for testing regular firearms. It has been used, but not overly used and so , yes, it would be a good "tool" to use. Once again, I thank you for the suggestion(s).


    BTW, Below here is the first use with that bb gun as I was trying to figure out how the chrony worked & all that. It is obvious that I was just trying to get used to it & how sensitive it was or was not & that is evident by the errors shown. I did not try to add in all of the info/data that it can gather at the time. It was just a "fam. fire" & learning experience for me to find out more about what that chrony could actually do. I learned from the experience & have continued to learn since.

    ----------------------
    Set: 1
    Created: 19/09/17 12:30
    Description: B.B. test
    Notes 1:
    Notes 2:
    Distance to Chrono(FT): 5.00
    Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000(unknown at time of test)
    Bullet Weight(gr): 0.00
    Temp: N/A F
    BP: N/A inHg
    Altitude: 0.00
    # FPS FT-LBS PF
    10 332 0.00 0.00
    9 ERROR 2
    8 330 0.00 0.00
    7 323 0.00 0.00
    6 ERROR 3
    5 ERROR 3
    4 331 0.00 0.00
    3 ERROR 3
    2 ERROR 2
    1 ERROR 2
    Average: 329.0 FPS
    SD: 4.1 FPS
    Min: 323 FPS
    Max: 332 FPS
    Spread: 9 FPS
    Shot/sec: 0.1
    True MV: 329 FPS
    Group Size (in): 0.00

    ---------------------
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I appreciate the effort you are considering in this study. That said I think you may be trying to bite off too much.
    I think just two handgun cartridges would be sufficient, with only one boolit weight per cartridge. A 9mm and 45acp would be a good selection in that the working pressures are so different and can use different powders, but both cover the majority of working pressures in handguns with the exception of the large magnum calibers.

    Right now, I pretty much have decided to stick to one caliber at first. The 45ACP. Simply because of the reasons I listed in my last post about lower pressure as well as less time & effort issues.
    I am considering adding another caliber in the next month or so & continue on with the testing a little longer with added caliber(s), IF I find that the time consumed is not too much for me to do even one caliber(45ACP). I will be seeing how long it takes to do the 3 powders I would like to test with just the 45ACP first & test those loads, and then consider whether or not I should add, or just stick to one caliber. Currently, I am just going to stick with Alliant Red Dot, & Hodgdons 700X & Clays, for the 3 powders.



    I don't know how many different pistol powders you are considering testing(may have missed it) but I think I wouldn't get too many going at once. It will be too much work and expense as I believe you are finding out.

    3 powders, see above answer.

    Using a larger difference in the ladder loads would simplify things some and would still give you a good idea what is going on.

    As explained in my post before this one, these loads ranges are only about .5 grains apart, so testing at .2 grains, although it would reduce the time/material/effort, would, IMO, also reduce the data I would be able to gather.

    If further testing seems warranted, there is always next year.

    Yes, or next month or so. LOL I have been considering this sort of thing for a while. I am not going to "rush".
    Time & funds/supplies will be my only self imposed restrictions.


    If you load using the same equipment in the same environment(basement, temp, humidity) so conditions are stable and use powers and other components from the same lots, the loads should be a good test even if they are not loaded at the same time.

    I agree.

    I intend to follow this research and study your results. It sounds very interesting.

    Thanks for your attention, support, & suggestions!
    I am really trying to keep things short.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    Its a pain to do but try coloring the bbs with a black magic marker to a flat black color to lower reflections that may not trip a screen. Or try some lead bbs that are the dull grey color I use my rws1 springer .177 pellet gun for this with a "select batch" of pellets. Nothing special but that can of 1000 is set aside just for this purpose. Firing 5 pellets to check the set up those will last a long time. Its really amazing how consistant these spring cocker air rifles are velocity wise. A buddy uses his 22 target rifle and a select batch of ammo for this also.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    JB...the more I read about this the less makes sense.

    Wasn't the original post about powders reacting differently to extreme temperature swings?

    Charlie, I think you may be confusing the topic about Cold weather ladder testing and temp. sensitivity with reduced loads, & the possibility of "detonation", as well as breaking "plastic parts", @ http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...n-Cold-Weather, and this topic, which is dealing with normal load ranges from current reloading manuals & temperature sensitivity of powder & how it may affect load performance.

    Now your talking about monthly test?

    Yes, but with different goals & parameters in mind in this topic & project. "Book" or Loading manual load ranges to be tested for temp. sensitivities , but done monthly to test for how the suggested Start to Max. loads in the manuals are affected using some certain powders. ( Alliant Red Dot, & Hodgdon 700X & Clays)

    Don't know for sure but...up there where you live, aren't you basically living in a freezer for the next 3 months or so? -1*F. today and 30 days from now it's +3*F. give or take the wind chills and that stuff. What does a monthly test prove when for several months in a row it's just basically freezing up there?

    LOL Charlie, we have fluctuations in weather, and it is not usually as extreme as you may think it is here... We get "surprises once in a while with periods of cold & then a warm up for a few days & then back into the freezer we go. Although this last late Dec. the temps have been below normal & have actually been what we might expect for January temps, We are at about 3F for highs today & the it will be 3F tomorrow(Fri) then around 12F Sat. & 27F on Sun & Mon... Then back down to colder temps around -0-F from there on as forecast right now. I plan to try to shoot these test somewhere around the ave. temp for each month. January ave high is 18F for St. Paul with is the capital & basically in the middle of the state North to South. See the below temp chart for ave. temps for St. Paul each year & you will see what I am talking about.
    .


    Originally I thought you were going to see what the difference is between (-)whatever*F. right now and the heat of your summer @+100*F. ...?

    Yes. In the other topic is was for those reduced loads. In THIS topic it is normal range loads ( book/manual loads)

    You got me befuzzeled, maybe cause I'm too old and slow to comprehend your plan...sheeesh, I dunnoh!

    Charlie, the other topic became a bit "convoluted" or "muddied" a bit. That "project" is still in the works, but is separate from this one. Each topic covers a different part of load testing using a "ladder" system, but each one was intended to cover different parts of testing loads and the effect of temperature sensitivity on those loads. Look at it as "Reduced loads" in cold temps & temp. sensitivity effects in the other topic
    & normal "book/manual loads" year round & temp. sensitivities effects in this topic.

    Hope that helps differentiate the 2 topics. I understand the confusion though.


    It looks like your making too much fuss over this and you'll never get off the ground cause of all the volume of loadings when it just ain't required?

    I will get it worked out, Charlie. I think ya know that among others, I was trained to "accomplish the mission", "do or die", just as you & those others were. Would you think I would stop just because of some bumps, obstacles & interference from anyone or anything? LOL Not likely. You have already seen "Improvise when need be, Adapt to your situation & Overcome the issue(s)" in action. I am just trying to apply good methods to accomplish a goal/mission & I don't see anyone persuading me to not do this. Even if no one else wants to learn, I am gonna learn. So it, once again , is ,"Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of the way!".


    Enlighten me JB!

    Just did.
    St. Paul Average Weather

    Month Temp. (avg)
    January 18F
    February 20F
    March 33F
    April 49F
    May 60F
    June 70F
    July 75F
    August 72F
    September 64F
    October 50F
    November 38F
    December 20F
    ----------------------------------------
    Last edited by JBinMN; 01-04-2018 at 10:51 PM.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

    Enforce the Immigration laws & deport the illegal immigrants. Quit fooling around.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by zymguy View Post
    Because of the COLD youve had access to id encurage you to add one of the new powders that claim to be less temp sensitive. adding annother powder does add a lot more work, perhaps corser incriments to reduce total round count. Either way, ill watch/read good luck!
    I am actually considering that using another recommended, less "Temp.Sens." Alliant powder of the 3 recommended to me by the Alliant Rep. thru email, now that I have heard back from Hodgdon & alliant representatives. I will explain more in this & the other topic later. I need to take a break right now.


    Good points BTW, Thanks for the support & suggestion(s)!
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

    Enforce the Immigration laws & deport the illegal immigrants. Quit fooling around.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Its a pain to do but try coloring the bbs with a black magic marker to a flat black color to lower reflections that may not trip a screen. Or try some lead bbs that are the dull grey color I use my rws1 springer .177 pellet gun for this with a "select batch" of pellets. Nothing special but that can of 1000 is set aside just for this purpose. Firing 5 pellets to check the set up those will last a long time. Its really amazing how consistant these spring cocker air rifles are velocity wise. A buddy uses his 22 target rifle and a select batch of ammo for this also.
    That using a .22 with factory ammo as a "benchmark" load to test chriny was my first thought. I have mentioned it before.
    The bb gun idea though, might be worthwhile as well as a little bit less expensive. Perhaps I will do both to start & see how it goes. I will consider that "blackening" as well. That may have been part of the issue with the "errors" when I first testing the chriny as per the data shown.

    Thanks again! I appreciate your assistance & suggestions!
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

    Enforce the Immigration laws & deport the illegal immigrants. Quit fooling around.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master OS OK's Avatar
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    OK Marine...you're on point & I got your 6.
    Prolly after you start publishing your findings and I see a graph or two...It'll be more clear to me.

    Like I said earlier...I'm gettin old, fat and slow...now I can add 'dense', but...I'm paying attention! . . .
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

    Be a Patriot . . . expose their lies!

    In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. G. Orwell

    2018 is going to be a 'Jaw-Dropping Year' . . . 'The Year', the World was born to live . . .
    just, "watch your 6" .

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OS OK View Post
    OK Marine...you're on point & I got your 6.
    Prolly after you start publishing your findings and I see a graph or two...It'll be more clear to me.

    Like I said earlier...I'm gettin old, fat and slow...now I can add 'dense', but...I'm paying attention! . . .
    ... You will be up to speed in no time..

    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

    Enforce the Immigration laws & deport the illegal immigrants. Quit fooling around.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    I have cleaned & prepped 600+ once fired Winchester 45ACP cases. That will be my chosen case for my project. Being that there are 600+ and it takes 150 of them for testing 3 powders, that will keep the firings down to 4 times for a year, rather than using the same 150 over & over for 12 firings. The extras will be set aside in case there is some sort of issue with any of the tested cases thru the testing.

    Since the ave. temp in Jan for this area is approx. 18F, so I am going to try to do the testing for each month on days that approximate the ave temp for that month. Sat. into Sun e are going to warm up to 12F or so to 30F or so. If I can get the rounds made before then I will try to test this weekend before the temps rise above the average for Jan.. If not the next forcast time for us to drop back down into the +/- 18F range ins mid week, and I will try to test then instead if this weekend does not work out for some reason.

    I will make the decisions on the particulars/specs of the rest of the components & post here when I do, before I start loading in anticipation of someone suggesting something different. For the folks interested in such things.

    I am just a bit surprised that there has not been more interest in this project here at CB.GLs forum since this a forum where I thought folks would be interested, but if that is not to be, than so be it. I am still going to test & I wanted to once again, Thank all who have been supportive & have made suggestions to help out in the preparation & doing of this project!


    {Note - I have rec'd return emails from the 2 powder mnfrs about temperature sensitivity in their respective powders. The powders I have chosen are "Temp. Sensitive", which is a good reason for me to do this type of testing project as I will learn more about just how much they are T.Sens. in their respective suggested Start(min.) to Max. recommended loads. Other powders were mentioned by both powder "reps.", but since that info is not applicable to this project, I see no need to share it here at this time.}
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "A man ought ta do what he thinks is best" - "Hondo" Lane.(John Wayne)

    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

    Enforce the Immigration laws & deport the illegal immigrants. Quit fooling around.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I think including a 10 shot string of .22lr and a 10 shot string of some factory .45 ACP rounds would be interesting for comparison.

    Why are you doing 50 shot strings? That seems excessive and it sounds like you don't have a progressive press which would make something like this a much simpler undertaking.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check