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Thread: Oversie Cast Bullet in .30-06?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Oversie Cast Bullet in .30-06?

    I'm considering a 314299 mold for a Springfield Krag, which should work well with the .303 nose on that mold and my slightly oversize bore.

    Would like to consider dual purpose on this bullet, mainly in a Sake Finnbear .30-06, whose bore I have not yet slugged but presume is close to spec since it shoots well with .308 jacketed projectiles.

    Question: with soft cast in the 314299, am I going to be making a mistake by trying to shoot the slugs in the Sako, or any other modern, good condition .30 caliber rifle whose bore is close to .308"?

    I can size the bullet's body to whatever's required but would rather not get into nose sizing.

    Is there a potential safety problem with high pressure with the .303 nose? IF not, can I expect any kind of accuracy in 308 bores with the oversize bullet?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    A .308 bore is .300. The rifling is .308.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a Springfield '03 that slugs at .301" X .310". I use the NOE 312299 sized to .312".

    I get very light engraving on the nose and it is very accurate.


    Steve in N CA

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks, UpNorth. I overslept.
    Last edited by PBSmith; 01-03-2018 at 07:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by sghart3578 View Post
    I have a Springfield '03 that slugs at .301" X .310". I use the NOE 312299 sized to .312".

    I get very light engraving on the nose and it is very accurate.


    Steve in N CA
    That's encouraging. Thanks.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I don't think there is reason for concern as far as pressure goes. The military did tests in the WW II era doing all sorts of crazy stuff like 8x57 in 30-06 and much worse and failed to produce a major failure.

    Lead is much more forgiving than a jacketed bullet let alone a steel jacketed bullet.

    Why not just get a mold that won't give you nose issues. I use the Lee 160gr 2R TL in everything 30 and 30ish caliber.

    Motor

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    You said 30-06 but you also said Krag which is chambered for 30-40. The Krag with the arsenal chamber is a very different critter than a 30-06. No answer will be correct until this is cleared up.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 01-02-2018 at 02:00 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy JMax's Avatar
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    I have a Krag made in 1902 and a Springfield made in 1934 and both like a .311 sized NOE 314-202. I size the same bullet for my 1944 LongBranch No 4 Mk1 5 groove sized to .314.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    My default sizing for .30 caliber is .311
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBSmith View Post
    Would like to consider dual purpose on this bullet, mainly in a Sake Finnbear .30-06, whose bore I have not yet slugged but presume is close to spec since it shoots well with .308 jacketed projectiles.
    Never assume, especially with the Euro's. I have an FN '06 that is so well made, assumed it was .300x.308. Shot certain jacketed loads great, cast not so much. Finally slugged it, turns out it was .300x.310. Adapted my usual .309" sizing to .311 and it started shooting amazing cast boolit groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by PBSmith View Post
    Question: with soft cast in the 314299, am I going to be making a mistake by trying to shoot the slugs in the Sako, or any other modern, good condition .30 caliber rifle whose bore is close to .308"?

    I can size the bullet's body to whatever's required but would rather not get into nose sizing.

    Is there a potential safety problem with high pressure with the .303 nose? IF not, can I expect any kind of accuracy in 308 bores with the oversize bullet?
    As Motor stated, swaging lead down is not very pressure intensive. It does raise pressures a bit, but nothing like jacketed does. So if a load is already on the edge of Max, it might push it over. But if it's a middle of the road load, probably not.

    But there is one circumstance that could be an issue. If you use gas check boolits and size to .314", and the rifle has a tight chamber neck, and maybe you have some thick brass, you could get a condition where the brass cannot expand to release the boolit, and your pressures could really go sky-high. Most factory chambers are more generous, but it could happen.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
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    A few musings.

  11. #11
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    I would wait and see if I got a 314299 or a 308X299 before I got all worked up about bullet diameters.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    I've used the Lyman #314299 (and a hollowpointed version) for years in .30-40 Krag (Ruger not Springfield), .308, and .30-06. I size to .311" for everything using ww alloy. I load to no more than about 1,700 fps. Very accurate bullet; no problems whatsoever. As with all cast rifle bullets, I seat to where the bullet is very slightly engraved.

  13. #13
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    PBSmith

    Is there a potential safety problem with high pressure with the .303 nose? IF not, can I expect any kind of accuracy in 308 bores with the oversize bullet?

    There is not a pressure problem with the .303 nose, especially if you work up a load as we're supposed to. The potential problem with the Sako is a matter of chambering. If the Sako has a .300 bore at the leade (lands where the throat ends) the .303 nose will not enter easily. You may find chambering very difficult and the bullet may get pushed back into the case. Or the bullet may be stuck in the throat and if you try to unchamber the loaded round the bullet may be pulled out of the case still stuck in the throat.

    If the bullet nose does fit into the bore then size the drive bands and GC at .311. I've shot many 314299s out of various '06 and .308s that the nose fit into the bore allowing chambering sized that way. With the drive bands sized at .311 they shot very well. I've also sized the nose of 314299s to .300 or .301 to "fit" along with the drive bands and GC sized at .311 and those also shot very well though not as good as a 311299 which fit w/o all the sizing.

    In the Sako rifle, if capable of moa +/- accuracy with quality jacketed loads, I would expect such a sized down 314299 cast of a good alloy, lubed with a good lube such as Lar's 2500+ or NRA 50/50 lube and loaded over 4895 with a Dacron filler to shot into 2 moa +/-.....maybe better.
    Larry Gibson

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  14. #14
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    IIRC the European CIP .30-'06 chamber is very similar to the SAAMI sporting chamber or the original government chamber used on the M1903 Springfield before WW2. If the bore and groove diameters are at minimum tolerance and the bore is essentially new and unworn, the .303" diameter forepart on the nose may impinge against the rifling. If the engraving is light and does not prevent rounds from chambering, requiring only moderate "feel" upon bolt closure, this should be OK. It may be necessary to seat bullets a bit deeper to avoid having to use excessive force in closing the bolt.

    Light engraving of the forepart, which does NOT result in either the bullet telescoping deeper into the case, or in the cartridge de-bulleting upon extracting an unfired round (spilling powder in the action and leaving the bore obstructed!) does no harm. The best thing is to assemble a dummy cartridge, chamber it and extract it, and examine the bullet.

    A combination which fits like this can be very accurate and does not cause excessive pressure in normal loads.

    Attachment 210917
    Last edited by Outpost75; 01-02-2018 at 05:25 PM.
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    And the issue of loading the 30-40 Krag with the same boolit is the same, just that the loads need to be substantially reduced, as I assume you know.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Char-Gar's Avatar
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    Shooting cast bullets in the Krag rifle requires different considerations than a 30-06 military or commercial. The military Krag chamber has a very long and quite large throat. For best accuracy bullets should be .312 or even larger if the round will chamber. I use .313 in my Krags. It is not likely the .303 nose will give you any negative issues. Just seat the bullet our as long as possible so the round will function through the magazine with ease. Even so, the bullet will probably has a jump before it engages the rifling.

    The 30-40 and the 308 Winchester cases has the same powder capacity. 308 Win. cast bullet data can be used in the 30-40, but not jacketed bullet data. The Krag action is quite weak with only one bolt lug and the edge of the receiver acting as a safety lug and brittle to boot. 308 Win. pressure loads will take the Krag apart.
    Last edited by Char-Gar; 01-02-2018 at 02:05 PM.
    Disclaimer: The above is not holy writ. It is just my opinion based on my experience and knowledge. Your mileage may vary.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Note what HangFire says: you are not going to get any pressure problems because of larger cast boolet diameter until you hit that point where the larger diameter boolet causes the case neck to be large enough that there is insufficient expansion room in the neck portion of the chamber to allow the case to release the boolet nicely. At that point you can get some exciting pressures. (Yes, voice of experience here).

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy paul edward's Avatar
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    I have used that bullet (from an old 311299 mold) in both 30/06 and 308 Winchester with 34 grains of H335. This is an accurate plinking load in my 1903 Springfield MkI.

    With a soft cast bullet and gas check, loaded to modest velocities, this bullet should work in your Sako. Try loading a small batch and testing at your range for accuracy and leading. Slower powders will work well in the 30/06.

    I bought this mold originally for 303 British and 7.65x53 but it also works in 7.7x58, 7.62x54R as well as most 30 calibers.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Thanks to all for your responses. I ordered the NOE version of 311299 and will be curious to discover what it drops. This is primarily for the Krag, but I'll do as Outpost suggests and assemble dummy rounds, for the Krag as well as the Sako.

    Appreciate your sharing of expertise.

    PBSmith
    Last edited by PBSmith; 01-03-2018 at 08:16 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you would have been better off with the 314, you can size down - especially after lubing, but you really can't size up without special equipment (swaging).
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check