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Thread: Up date on the 40-50 Shiloh Sharps

  1. #1
    Boolit Master




    Boz330's Avatar
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    Up date on the 40-50 Shiloh Sharps

    This round has been a REAL education to say the least and it isn't finished yet. I got the rifle 1-1/2 weeks before deer season and really wanted to use it. I worked up a load for a 325gr mold that I already had and zeroed the sights just in time to hunt with it. The hunt was successful but some of the rounds that I had loaded were difficult to chamber but I didn't have time to figure that out before season.

    After season I started working on a competition load for this rifle. Since I have owned a number of 40-65s over the last 20+ years I had plenty of molds to try. The first thing I ran up against was chambering problems with molds that didn't have reduced front driving bands to fit up into the bore so I sized to .408 instead of .409 and this helped a little but didn't solve the problem of having to use a cam stick on some rounds, while others chambered with no problems. Groups at 300yd would have several rounds in almost MOA groups and then flyers 12" to sometimes 18" out of the group. These rounds were showing some bullet tipping to. I don't profess to be a terrific marksman but I sure wasn't seeing sight pictures that bad. I was also getting hard extractions on the rounds that required the cam stick. After that shooting session I had to go back to the drawing board for sure.

    When I got back to the house I got the caliper out and started doing some measuring of the cases and low and behold the inside neck diameters on some of the cases were .403 and .404 instead of .408 and above. Outside neck diameters were .433 to .434 which is about as they should be. These cases were formed form 30-40 cases which is what Kirk at Shiloh suggested using. When I went looking for those cases I found that they really aren't all that available and the only ones around were Graf's cases so I ordered 2 bags of 50 to start with and fire formed them.

    After thinking I had solved the problem I ordered a .410 Forster neck reamer to open the neck of the fired cases. I had to make a special fitting for my Lyman case trimmer to ream the necks but got the job done. What I found in the process was that the case thickness varies greatly on these particular cases. Some didn't hardly need reaming and others were a real chore to get to size. So some bullets were either being sized down in seating or expanding the case in the process of seating making those rounds hard to chamber. All of which would make for erratic variances in velocity and bullet fit. Since I had 2 different bags of brass from the same manufacturer and they were mixed I can't be sure that accounted for all of the differences.

    I also have 2 bags of Winchester 303 brass that can also be used for the parent case but am holding off till I see how the reamed 30-40 brass does.

    I do have a question for you guys about case trimmers though. Is there a good power case trimmer that any of you can recommend. I have seen reviews that say they don't hold accuracy very well. My hands after reaming and/or trimming 100+ cases are toast not to mention deburring inside and outside. Thanks

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master



    skeettx's Avatar
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    I use the original RCBS electric Trim Pro trimmer and have bored out the cutter shaft to hold Forster
    inside neck reaming cutters. It does quite well.
    Mike

    http://www.cabelas.com/product/RCBS-...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
    NRA Benefactor 2004

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    this isn't really any help, but I have been there with a couple Ballards from Wy. The W-W brass (30/40 made into 40/50SS) I used at the time was tapering the deeper the bullet went, so light bullets worked fine but heavy ones that had to be seated deeper wouldn't consistently chamber. I ended up using an outside neck turning tool made by RCBS. I ran into the same issue both with brass I made from scratch and with stuff I got from Buffalo Arms already made up.
    Flip side is, once they are made, they are a very pleasant rifle to shoot for 200 yard matches.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    Lyman used to sell a cutter shaft to allow a drill motor to drive the trimmer, they still may. Some of the lymans had a screw that held the crank on, if yours is one of these then a long screw with the head cut off and a jam nut would give a shaft for the drill motor. This will allow power drive but still require handling and pushing. better would be to fashion a angle plate from 1" X 4" hard wood to mount the trimmer on. this can then be clamped to a drill press table and driven with the drill press only needing to use the spindle to do the work. The stops should work as intended on the trimmer or if the drill press has a good accurate stop it can be used.

    I Made my trimmers angle plate (90*) from 1 X 4 hard maple 5" on the short leg and the other long enough to mount the trimmer to with the room needed for the draw screw. I also added a brace in the middle of the L 1" x 5"X 3". This was glued with wood dowels and cut square in a saw. dust one edge ( dusted the short leg to the long with the sliding guide set to 0) then dust the long to the guide at the same setting. I then added 2 flat head deck screws to add to the glues strength. Same with the brace glued doweled and screwed after clean up. Holes can be drilled in the short leg to bolt to drill press or it can be clamped down with c- clamps or strap clamps. With this type set up a once set up all you do is pull on the handle to the stop. I hung the trimmer fro the chuck in location and transferred the mounting holes thru, drilled pilot holes for the screws and mounted with angle plate was clamped down and trimmer in drill chuck to get alighnment.

    With this set up once set up you simply use the drill presses handle to do the work and can leave it running while changing cases. Most drill presses run quieter than drill motors too. One addition I did was a small plexi glass guard to deflect chips and shied the cutter when in use. Youll be turning the cutter faster, and chips will be coming off harder and faster flying farther than when done by hand. Also due to added speed a small container of cutting fluid and brush ( oil, water soluable, or even a small bar of beeswax) to lube pilots and cutter is handy. simply lube pilot and cutter every 3-5 cases. ( I had used an old oil dripper cup for this with a small tube and string but always forgot to turn it off when I finished leaking oil all over the drill press when sitting).

    A good oil finish ( tru oil) or better an epoxy finish on the angle plate seals it and strengthens it even more. I used hard maple for mine and sealed it with JB wood restorer epoxy about a 1/16" thick coating on the working surfaces of the L. But a good tru oil finish will work.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master




    Boz330's Avatar
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    The Lyman trimmer I have is the cheap model, Accutrimmer so I think I would rather get one of the more robust models. This one seems to have a lot of flex and the spindle is showing wear. I'm not even sure how long ago I got it, but I didn't trim a lot of brass so it filled it's function at the time.

    Bob
    GUNFIRE! The sound of Freedom!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check