.308 Winchester ADL Rem 700 Varmint

[Wally]

Excellent results.. I guess I best get some 4227 and see if I can do as well!

I use between 20 and 24 grains of 4227, often nose oriented
Here is a 100 yard target with 311465 and 24 grains of 4227

Rem 700 BDL VT Special
Mike

[Wally]

Sadly I don't have a K31....

Hum 13 grs 2-3" at 200 and 13.5 grs 2-3 feet at 200 yards. It looks like you found out how much pressure is needed to slump that "skinny" nose with the alloy you are using. If you have a K31 I sure would try that bullet in it, just might be a good fit.

[Wally]

John,

My goal is to improve the accuracy using Red Dot powder, but if that isn't possible, I definitely will use others.

Change your powder:
150 -156gr Bullet ... N-135 From 31.7 grains to 46.0 grains
165 - 170gr Bullet ... N-550 From 40.7 grains to 48.9 grains
You calculate the charge for the 160gr bullet or your Lyman #4 will identify the powder for best accuracy

[Wally]

Tried the 311672 w/ 12.5 of Red Dot in the Rem 700 ADL .308 Winchester at 175 ~200 yards...my goal was to consistently hit soup can targets, and with that I succeeded. Also used a Lee .30 Cal 150 RF-GC with 11.0, 11.5, 12.0 or Red Dot..it did the same. I am most pleased with both bullets. I tried to determine which loading was better with the Lee bullet; the 11.5 grain load was just slightly more accurate. However at such a range and at the 1,500 MV's, the difference in accuracy is quite small.

[Yodogsandman]

I have not done so....pushing a lead slug down the barrel of a rifle is not something that i care do do. I can appreciate what you are saying. Sized to .309" the bullet I am using is tight when introduced into the leade. I have used an RCBS 180 SP-GC and it doesn't offer any better accuracy.

I understand being apprehensive the first time you do it. I was too. I wrapped electrical tape around the metal rod like a candy cane and then fit a gas check onto the end that was going into the barrel.

The very least you could try, without slugging, is to measure the inside case neck of a case that's been fired from your rifle. The boolit should be sized to that diameter size. It's not the right way but, it's quick. Not always accurate, either.

I don't see Red Dot listed for that boolit in the Lyman #4 Cast Bullet Handbook. Your load might develop too much pressure for your boolits hardness and alloy composition. Different powders work best at certain pressures depending on the velocity that you want to shoot at. A fast rifle powder like IMR4227 or IMR 4198 might burn at a lower pressure and work better for 1500 FPS. I'd even try 2400 for 1500 FPS. I never try to use fast pistol powders for over about 1100 FPS in a rifle. If I want 1800 FPS, I might use IMR 4895 or RL7. If I want 2200 FPS, I might go to a slower rifle powder like IMR 4350 or IMR 4831.

[35 shooter]

I understand being apprehensive the first time you do it. I was too. I wrapped electrical tape around the metal rod like a candy cane and then fit a gas check onto the end that was going into the barrel.

The very least you could try, without slugging, is to measure the inside case neck of a case that's been fired from your rifle. The boolit should be sized to that diameter size. It's not the right way but, it's quick. Not always accurate, either.

I don't see Red Dot listed for that boolit in the Lyman #4 Cast Bullet Handbook. Your load might develop too much pressure for your boolits hardness and alloy composition. Different powders work best at certain pressures depending on the velocity that you want to shoot at. A fast rifle powder like IMR4227 or IMR 4198 might burn at a lower pressure and work better for 1500 FPS. I'd even try 2400 for 1500 FPS. I never try to use fast pistol powders for over about 1100 FPS in a rifle. If I want 1800 FPS, I might use IMR 4895 or RL7. If I want 2200 FPS, I might go to a slower rifle powder like IMR 4350 or IMR 4831.

Lots of good cast boolit shooting advice in that post!! IMHO.

[Wally]

I measured the bullets driven trough the barrel....308". I am sizing to .309". The bullets cast out at about .3095~.310". As stated I have had quite satisfactory results with the Lee 150 RF-GC and the Lyman 311672. The Lee bullet tends to be a tad bit more accurate. It does have more bearing surface area. As I am quite satisfied with the Red Dot Loads at 11.5 ~ 12.0 grains. I suppose I could do some laddering at 0.2 grain intervals to tweak the load a bit. Having done so with other calibers I have found the slight differences are quite insignificant.

[Yodogsandman]

I'd be "laddering those Red Dot loads downwards of 12.0gr instead of up.

[Wally]

So is would anyone in this group be pleased if they can plink soup cans at 200 yards with a .308 Win using cast loads? Perhaps I have set the bar too low?

[skeettx]

Works for me, should not be a major issue getting a 3" group at 200 yards (plink)

Wally what has been your success rate with Red Dot? I found it a bit fast burning for 308 cast.

You said in the original post " Using 13.0 grains I am getting ~ 1,700 FPS MV and Std Deviations of 8~9. Accuracy is 2~3" at 200 yards. As I shoot many different rifles with cast bullets, I am trying to get better accuracy."

Mike

[Wally]

Works for me, should not be a major issue getting a 3" group at 200 yards (plink)

Wally what has been your success rate with Red Dot? I found it a bit fast burning for 308 cast.

You said in the original post " Using 13.0 grains I am getting ~ 1,700 FPS MV and Std Deviations of 8~9. Accuracy is 2~3" at 200 yards. As I shoot many different rifles with cast bullets, I am trying to get better accuracy."

Mike

I find that Red Dot is very versatile for cast rifle loads. I used to use Unique but find that Red Dot is even better. I have used it in the .223 Rem, .22-250 Rem, .243 Win, .308 Win, .30-06, 7 mm Rem Mag, 8 mm Rem Mag. 444 Marlin & the .45-70 Gov't. It will not provide the fastest shooting loads: most loads give me MVs at 1,500~1,600 FPS. One thing that I have noticed; with these loads the rifle barrels remain very clean. Also they are not position sensitive. One must be careful not to double charge a case....but that goes for any cast rifle load using any powder.

[Pirate69]

Hey Wally,
Your PM inbox is full and it will not accept anymore. Trying to send you some info.

[Pirate69]

Ran Wally's 13.0 grain Red Dot load through QuickLoad and QL predicted 1,749 fps. Barrel time was 1.665 mS. Did not know Wally's COL so had to estimate for QL.

Looked at the OBT nodes for a 26" barrel and tried to match loads of both Red Dot and 2400 to meet the nodes times. Used 2400 only because I use it. Looks like the chamber pressure can get pretty high with RD fairly quickly.

Red Dot Powder
Node mS, grains, Pressure, velocity
1.864, 10.8, 26,972, 1,590
1.777, 11.7, 30,003, 1,657
1.639, 13.4, 35,971, 1,776
1.553, 14.5, 40,004, 1,850
1.415, 17.1, 50,096, 2,014

2400 Powder
Node mS, grains, Pressure, velocity
1.415 25.5, 39,843, 2,328
1.553, 23.0, 32,326, 2,185
1.635, 21.7, 28,782, 2,108
1.777, 19.8, 24,029, 1,989
1.864, 18.7, 21,499, 1,917
2.001, 17.3, 18,508, 1,822
2.088, 16.5, 16,911, 1,764
2.225, 15.4, 14,864, 1,682
2.313, 14.8, 13,782, 1,636

[Wally]

Hey Wally,
Your PM inbox is full and it will not accept anymore. Trying to send you some info.

Sorry, I trimmed it down as I was over the limit for storage.

[Wally]

Ran Wally's 13.0 grain Red Dot load through QuickLoad and QL predicted 1,749 fps. Barrel time was 1.665 mS. Did not know Wally's COL so had to estimate for QL.

Looked at the OBT nodes for a 26" barrel and tried to match loads of both Red Dot and 2400 to meet the nodes times. Used 2400 only because I use it. Looks like the chamber pressure can get pretty high with RD fairly quickly.

Red Dot Powder
Node mS, grains, Pressure, velocity
1.864, 10.8, 26,972, 1,590
1.777, 11.7, 30,003, 1,657
1.639, 13.4, 35,971, 1,776
1.553, 14.5, 40,004, 1,850
1.415, 17.1, 50,096, 2,014

2400 Powder
Node mS, grains, Pressure, velocity
1.415 25.5, 39,843, 2,328
1.553, 23.0, 32,326, 2,185
1.635, 21.7, 28,782, 2,108
1.777, 19.8, 24,029, 1,989
1.864, 18.7, 21,499, 1,917
2.001, 17.3, 18,508, 1,822
2.088, 16.5, 16,911, 1,764
2.225, 15.4, 14,864, 1,682
2.313, 14.8, 13,782, 1,636

Thank you....COL is 2.672"...

[Wally]

Have tried using less Red Dot powder with the 311672 in the .308 Win. Using 11.5-12.00 grains gives me the best accuracy. I seat the bullet to the bottom edge of the top lube groove and use thicker aluminum GC's to keep them on. Getting 4" groups at 200 yards on a calm day.