WidenersReloading EverythingInline FabricationRotoMetals2
Titan ReloadingRepackboxLoad DataLee Precision
MidSouth Shooters Supply
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Expanding 22 lr brass

  1. #1
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671

    Expanding 22 lr brass

    Expanding 22 lr cases

    Read where guys on Cast Boolits .com were expanding 22 brass to make jackets for .223 and some were having trouble getting the expanded brass off the punch. Pondered this problem for a while, then decided to try my hand at expanding 22 lr brass to make jacketed bullets. Wondered how much the case can be expanded before
    failing. Next thought was to use water hydraulics. Threw the 22 brass in a pan filled with water. You have to agitate them to get all the air out.

    Beginning the process I made the proper size rods to drive into the 22 brass with a small rounded end and strike with a small brass hammer.
    As the rod is struck, hydraulic pressure inside the brass helps hold the shape as the rod is driven to the bottom.

    Water will escape upwards around the rod toward your hand and in the process expands the brass a mite larger than the rod. Then you can remove the brass from the rod with ease and no damage. Next anneal the brass. Expand in steps in approximately .020 steps up to whatever size is needed.
    Fit the Lee.308 113 grain Hi-Tek coated bullet that comes out .312dia. inside the expanded jacket. Run through sizer die to .3075.
    This was the first effort. Next time just size the bullets down to when you add the jacket and run through the sizer the bullet will be the right size and you would not have to expand the brass as much. This little bullet would go good in the 30-30 and other 30 caliber firearms.

    This process is labor intensive, and messy, but it can be done. Here are pictures of the sized rods and the finished product.
    Should there be some interest in the process we can go into more detail about diameters of the rods and such. Since I find it can be done, I am thinking that an inline press could be made to apply even pressure to do the process and rotate to the next step moving down the line with each pull of the handle. Still would have to pull the jackets from each rod and refill with water, add a new hull, and remove the finished on the other end.
    The finished thickness of the 22lr brass measured .oo5.
    The jacketed boolits weigh 123 grains.
    Punch sizes used: .220 -- .238 -- .25825 -- .2695 -- .2845 -- The last one .3075 left the brass at .3095 ID. The escaping water causes the .002 bigger size. Getting the case expanded up to 30 caliber was my goal and here we have reached the goal.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671

    Pictures

    Now for the pictures of tools for expanding 22 lr cal brassClick image for larger version. 

Name:	November 2017 092 Resize.jpg 
Views:	183 
Size:	63.4 KB 
ID:	210784

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,091
    Thank you for this post. This is quite interesting to me, as I have tried expanding 22 casings to larger sizes, to make into various powder dippers, with limited success. Do the cases ever collapse or split, and did you anneal once or several times? This sounds fun, but am not going outside today to try it, it's -28 below.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671
    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr-Guy View Post
    Thank you for this post. This is quite interesting to me, as I have tried expanding 22 casings to larger sizes, to make into various powder dippers, with limited success. Do the cases ever collapse or split, and did you anneal once or several times? This sounds fun, but am not going outside today to try it, it's -28 below.
    As long as the case is filled with water, they expand with no problems. On annealing I think you may can do two steps then anneal, may need to anneal each time. Planning to do a batch of 50 at a time and go with anneal each step up and see how big they will get. And, yes it is fun. Thinking about a little umbrella fit on the punch to deflect the spay of water coming out.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Evergreen state
    Posts
    424
    Very interesting! Did you hammer against flat surface? Wood? i am thinking of using arbor press. Didn't think it was possible to expand this much.



    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    JSnover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sicklerville NJ
    Posts
    4,380
    Quote Originally Posted by dimaprok View Post
    Very interesting! Did you hammer against flat surface? Wood? i am thinking of using arbor press. Didn't think it was possible to expand this much.



    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk
    An arbor press may not do it. The hammer impact causes the hydraulic shock you need to expand the case. The press would be quite a bit slower and probably allow the water to bleed out before the case expands.
    That'd be my guess, anyway. Nothing to lose by trying it.
    Warning: I know Judo. If you force me to prove it I'll shoot you.

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Evergreen state
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by JSnover View Post
    An arbor press may not do it. The hammer impact causes the hydraulic shock you need to expand the case. The press would be quite a bit slower and probably allow the water to bleed out before the case expands.
    That'd be my guess, anyway. Nothing to lose by trying it.
    That makes sense. What about surface what did you hammer the case on? I though that perhaps you had some kind of die to put in?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671
    In the process of building a press. 22 brass was sitting on a polished hard metal surface. When the brass is annealed it can be expanded and thinned unless the brass get ruined with too much heat. These cases measure .005 thousandths now. Personally, I am not aware of how thick the jacket needs to be. It looks as if I am getting ready to find out loaded in 30-30 brass. Marlin style.

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    northeast PA
    Posts
    72
    Glad to see this post. And success. Nice job. I started a similar project with 22 mag. cases to have longer and slightly thicker jackets. For 30 cal bullets. Made a few temporary tools and bullets then couldn't find anymore 22mag cases to continue. Only 17HMR and the necks would split even when annealed.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    NC Arkansas
    Posts
    1,394
    Trim the neck and shoulder, then expand the case.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    SE MISSOURI
    Posts
    969
    That would make a nice light weight hunting boolet or plinker. Going to have to try this and load some up. Do you use anything to bond the brass to the lead or just size down to a tight fit?

  12. #12
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    northeast PA
    Posts
    72
    Trim the neck and shoulder, then expand the case.

    They were too short for my desired bullet cores then. I have since accumulated enough 22 mag cases now. But that project is way low on my current priorities list.

    Also. I like the water release method. I'll have to try that as well. I put a very coarse and shallow thread on my mandrels to remove the stretched cases.

    Many ways to skin that cat. I would imagine others will chime in with even better methods. I love this site.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    SE MISSOURI
    Posts
    969
    Oldbearhair. Me and the wife lived in porter for two years.my wife lived in Baytown Tx growing up. I worked for Anaheim conversions truck van and suburbans in 1990 91. I would like to try this when it gets warmer its been to cold here. It's going to be 60 Friday and Saturday so I might at least go shooting. Would like to know more about how you make your punches .I really want to try this . I got 5 kids sitting at home that need a job.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671
    Jniedbalski --Would like to know more about how you make your punches .I really want to try this . I got 5 kids sitting at home that need a job. Check back to the top post #1 , it tells the sizes of the punches and they were turned on the metal lathe.
    Last edited by OldBearHair; 01-09-2018 at 05:26 PM. Reason: spelling

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    SE MISSOURI
    Posts
    969
    Ok thanks got the sizes

  16. #16
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671

    Push through dies

    Moving along with toolmaking process for expanding 22 brass. January 12 in the shop, 42 degrees, near Conroe Texas. Worked on making two push-through dies plus push rod and slugged the bore of a Marlin 30-30 Finished one die at .296 to size down cast bullet from Lee 113 grain .310. The bullet will sit in an expanded 22 brass .298 and then pushed through the .307 die that is not finished. No correct reamer on hand, so drilled with .299 drill and began reaming process with 150 grit sandpaper up to 600 grit and the die is now .303 diameter. More reaming with 100 grit and 2000 grit slowly up to .307. ( Whew)Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Iphone 01 01 2018 109.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	46.1 KB 
ID:	211783Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Iphone 01 01 2018 110.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	42.1 KB 
ID:	211784Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Iphone 01 01 2018 111.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	26.5 KB 
ID:	211785

  17. #17
    Boolit Master



    MUSTANG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kalispell, Montana
    Posts
    2,746
    You might want to look at multiple dies to draw that .310 Lee boolit to .296. This morning I was sizing a boolit/core (about 190 grains) from .302 to .298 and the boolit/core buckled and mushroomed at the head.

    In my application; I have been using a 6.5mm Lee Cruise Missile boolit (about 170 grains) to swage into a .301 boolit for paper patching over the last couple of years. Wanted a little heavier (and Longer) boolit to paper patch; so I was drawing down a Lyman 311644 boolit from about .309, to .305, to .302 as a potential core of ~ 190 grains to be swaged into a .298 core (Corbin Core Swage Die). The .302 diameter to .298 was too large a draw to make as it buckled at the top and stripped the base. In my case (alloy 96% lead, 3% antimony, 1% tin) the core will need another intermediate draw to .300 before going into the final Corbin 0.298 core swage die.

    You may find that your draw from .310 to .298 is TOO Much; and you may need intermediate draws also.
    Mustang

    "In the beginning... the patriot is a scarce man, and brave and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master OldBearHair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Conroe TEXAS
    Posts
    671
    Hey Mustang thanks for the input. Although, the die has a gradual taper for 2/3 the way before is gets to .296. The bullets were WW lead with some pewter. I do not know what the percentages are on these or the BHN hardness. It was a little hard to size the 64 bullets, but not too much. The die has a high grade polish on the inside that might account for this. Using my old Lyman single stage press. A 190 grain bullet is a different story altogether. A lot more lead to deal with . Good luck with your progress. The 30-30 slug measured .305. The second die is now at .306, so I ran some lubricated Hi-Tec Gold 113 boolits through it to give them a trial run before I bring it on up to .307. They sized readily through the die. The Speer manual lists a starting load for 110 grain jacketed boolit at 1900 fps. I really want to get that down to about 1200 fps. Need to find load data for that.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    hardcase54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    276
    Very different approach. But hey whatever works, right? Thanks for something else for me to ponder.
    " CANCER SUCKS" I swage .224, 6mm, 7mm, .308, 9mm, .40, .429. Also 9 to 30 jackets, and 9 to 9 jackets.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy dimaprok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Evergreen state
    Posts
    424
    Quote Originally Posted by OldBearHair View Post
    The Speer manual lists a starting load for 110 grain jacketed boolit at 1900 fps. I really want to get that down to about 1200 fps. Need to find load data for that.
    Why do you want to shoot jacketed bullets at 9mm velocity? you don't need jacket f or 1200 fps.

    Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check