30 Carbine Ruger BH

[whelenshooter]

Used to have an m1 carbine and have lots of ammo and reloading supplies left for it. I like Blackhawks, so long story short ordered one of these to consume the fodder and it's on its way I have read lots of posts here and other places that talk about the failure to fire because of the case being shoved forward by the hammer/firing pin.

The 30 carbine case headspaces on the mouth. I know the crimp and trim length have to be right. But that's true in semi-autos too, so is the moving forward due to there being no extractor holding the case or is it the force of the bh's hammer/firing pin or ruger's chamber or something else?

Thanks
David

[Outpost75]

Since the 30 Carbine headspaces on the case mouth, case length is critical.

Cases which are too short fail to give reliable ignition in the Ruger revolver, because the hammer blow simply drives cases more deeply into the chambers. If cases are too long, their heads bind against the recoil shield and impair cylinder rotation.

In the US carbine long cases may prevent rounds from chambering completely, causing failure of the bolt to lock.

When fired in the typical M1 Carbine cases stretch upon firing. They elongate even further when full-length resized. Once-fired GI brass may indeed need trimming after FL sizing. Failure to pay attention to case length causes problems in both carbine and revolver!

Ignition problems in the Ruger and functioning ones in the carbine are avoided by measuring cases. Pay careful attention to eliminate any brass shorter than 1.28,” and trim those longer than 1.285” which causes excessive mouth crimp. New Starline brass is held within 1.280- 1.285 inches and I recommend that you do likewise with yours! If your .30 carbine brass is uniform, and of correct near-maximum length, there should be no functional issues in either carbine or revolver.

Dies for the .30 Carbine use a taper crimp, NOT a roll crimp, which affects headspace of the case mouth against the stop surface of the chamber. Case length should be checked EVERY time cases are sized. I recommend the Lee Quik Trim die, which uniformly trues brass to 1.280+0.005/-0.000 after sizing.

I can no longer recommend the simple Lee case gage, trimmer and lock stud, because the locating pin is now machined integral to the length gage, rather than being a press-fitted, hardened pin as it used to be. When run under power in a drill press, as many of us used to do, the pin end wears now, so that consistent length cannot be maintained. After trimming as few as 100 cases the integral pin of the length gage snaps off.

Carbide sizing dies eliminate the need for case lube. Any residual oil or grease not removed causes cases to set back upon firing and bind against the revolver recoil shield. Chambers of the Ruger revolver absolutely must be kept free of oil.

Cylinder throats of some Ruger .30 Carbine revolvers may be found as tight as .307-.308” diameter.

Cast bullet diameter is limited by chamber and brass dimensions to no more than .310” when using .30 Carbine brass. Some users hone cylinder throats to .3115-.3120,” which enables using the same bullets as for the .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal. This requires use of Starline .32-20 brass, which is thinner walled than .30 Carbine cases, which provides adequate neck release clearance for the larger bullet diameter. The New Model Blackhawk .30 Carbine cylinder does not have recessed case heads as did earlier guns. There is adequate head clearance for Starline .32-20 brass and this adaptation works very well for those users.

I use the same powder charges and bullets in the 7.62x25 Tokarev and also in the .30 Carbine Ruger. 7.4 grains of Olin Auto Comp functions the M1 carbine reliably, gives excellent accuracy, and drops empty brass fired from the carbine at your feet. AutoComp cast loads with Accurate 31-100T fired from the revolver approach factory jacketed velocity, whereas firing them in the carbine approximates .32-20 Winchester ’92 levels, about 1700 fps.

.30 Caliber Carbine Ammunition In Revolver and Rifle

Ammunition__________Ruger 7-1/2”_________US M1 Carbine 18”

LC44 Ball M1__________1586 fps , 20 Sd, 46 ES__1981 fps, 20 Sd, 56 ES
Norma 110-gr. SP______1490, 35, 96__________1960, 18, 59
Federal 110-gr. SP______1414, 22, 54_________1959, 16, 56

Accurate 31-100T
7.8 grs. AutoComp_____1527, 11, 29__________1692, 16, 54 Most accurate REVOLVER load
14.0 grs. IMR4227_____1524, 12, 35__________1858, 13, 33
14.0 grs. IMR4198_____1178. 52, 125_________1526, 30, 108

Attachment 209965Attachment 209980

[starnbar]

To add a little to the above remember new factory cases are not always to correct length check them too another 30 carbine ruger shooter.

[ReloaderFred]

The manufacturers of Carbide sizing dies for the .30 Carbine all recommend case lube when sizing, and I've found it necessary when using mine. The steel sizing dies do just as well in this caliber, and even though I have both, I normally use the steel sizing die, since it's more true to the original size of the case.

My .30 Carbine caliber Blackhawk suffers from hard ejection, even with .32-20 level loads. I'm going to polish the chambers and see if that fixes the problem.

And yes, the .30 Carbine case is notorious for case stretching. I check every case after sizing, and most require at least a little trimming.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[DougGuy]

One other thing not mentioned, if the boolit is a bit tight in the cylinder throat it may not seat all the way to the case mouth, and then when the hammer strikes the firing pin, it pushes the case further into the cylinder instead of igniting the primer.

[Thumbcocker]

I have a /30 carbine Blackhawk. Once you figure out the quirks they are fun and scary accurate. .32 mag. boolits sized to .310 after being lubed (keeps the groove from collapsing) shoot very well as does the Lee soupcan. Mine likes 2400. Good luck.

[Outpost75]

One other thing not mentioned, if the boolit is a bit tight in the cylinder throat it may not seat all the way to the case mouth, and then when the hammer strikes the firing pin, it pushes the case further into the cylinder instead of igniting the primer.

That is the reason for the note on the Accurate 31-100T bullet "front band tolerance negative"

[stubshaft]

I have one and it is a blast to shoot. Very accurate, low/no recoil and relatively flat shooting.

[Bmi48219]

I also have a carbine (Inland 1943), and thousands of round of LC. Saw a Ruger .30 and bought it for $300.00 seven years ago. Accurate as all get out. Then saw an AMT Automag III in 30 carbine. Bought that too. Sold the Ruger, kinda regret that but the AMT makes it easier to forget. Deadly accurate too. I run 13.8 gr 4227 for all my .30 carbine loads. Cycles well & doesn't beat up either firearm.
I check case length every time I size. On average 10 to 14% of cases have to be trimmed.
Don't much care to trim brass but it's worth it.
From what I've heard carbide dies don't restore the correct taper because they have a short carbide ring that can't possibly match the true taper of the case. I use a steel die to size and don't get a bulge near the base of brass. I shoot my carbine 4 times a year, the AMT every week.

[RJM52]

Great information guys...thanks!!

I have an OM that I love to shoot... Only handloads so far have been with H110 and either a Hornady 90 grain XTP .309 HP or an Accurate 31-120S sized to .309. Velocity is right around 1500 fps and accuracy is excellent.

Have not had any of the above mentioned problems with ignition as most of my brass is once fired. Will start checking the case LOA the next batch....

Bob

..just remembered I also have a 10" octagon barrel for my TC Contender...has only been shot once however...

[osteodoc08]

Plus and muffs. Plugs and muffs.

[bob208]

I have a old model Blackhawk had it for 40 years when I first got it I shot a lot of mill surplus I it because it was cheap. then I loaded the lyman bullet for the .32-20 and the hornady .30 plinkers. never had a problem with it going off.

but as stated you will need hearing protection. a full bore .357 is a ***** cat compared the a .30 carbine in a hand gun.

[T-Bird]

+1 on the hearing protection for 30 carbine. Mine is my loudest pistol by a lot.

[Leadmelter]

Hearing protection +2, even with my TC Contender.
Leadmelter
MI

[Uncle Grinch]

I’ve wanted a 30 Carbine BH ever since shooting one that a club member had at the range. He also had the AMT version and it was a beast. The grips were a little too wide (front to back) for me. Both were EXTREMELY loud, even with plugs and muffs.... but I loved it!

Wish I could find one at the right price.

[9.3X62AL]

I have had 3 of these 30 U.S. Carbine Blackhawks grace my gun safe shelves over the years. None of the three were balky or tricky about having ammo work in them--factory, milsurp, or handloads. These revolvers have been unalloyed FUN.

The most recent model, from about early 2013, is about as perfect dimensionally as a shooter could ask for from a maker. Barrel slugs and pins at .3080" x .3000", as closely as my marginal tools and skill set can determine. Throats are all right at .3085". The revolver is ACCURATE.

[whelenshooter]

Haven't been on much lately. Christmas was busy. Thanks for the replies and information, great stuff.

David

[thegatman]

Plus and muffs. Plugs and muffs.

Very loud. Sold mine.

[9.3X62AL]

Very loud. Sold mine.

Yes, sir--louder than Hell's drum line, and can set off earthquakes in fault zones. It might trigger avalanches, too--though few areas near me cultivate the snow depths required to breed such events. In real life, the only hazard I have encountered due to 30 Carbine Blackhawk shooting had more to do with beeswax in bullet lube than report volume--some of those "Africanized" honey bees out near Chiriaco Summit were NOT impressed with my use of Javelina BW/Alox bullet lube on Lee Soup Can castings a couple years ago. They successfully evicted me quickly from a favorite shooting site of mine.

[Ickisrulz]

Too loud? Slow the bullet down a little. It doesn't have to be loaded to rifle velocities.