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Thread: RCBS Green Machine restoration (or an attempt thereof)

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub darrondb's Avatar
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    RCBS Green Machine restoration (or an attempt thereof)

    Once again, a large lot of rusty, crusty, and busted reloading equipment found its way back to my garage. Actually, there were/are some really nice pieces in the mix including a Star lube-sizer (brand new, never had lube in it), a LAM-II, sizing dies for both the Star and LAM, a bunch of Lyman molds, a nice Lyman pot, and die sets. Besides the Star sizer, what really caught my eye in the listing was a RCBS Green Machine in 38/357. Just to preface all this, I am fully aware of the horror stories that these machines leave in their wake. No fear, I have other RCBS and Dillon machines to keep the loaded rounds flowing. I've been on the look out for one of these machines for some time now as I have developed a sickness for tracking down and cleaning up old and interesting reloading equipment. The GM is just going to be a project/conversation piece, and, if I can get it working smoothly, all the better. Plus, for the $$ I spent on the whole lot, the casting and sizing equipment made me feel pretty good about the investment.

    So lets see what we're working with. The listing categorized the equipment as having "light surface rust"....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Well, that might have been a slight understatement. At least all the parts were mostly freely moving. The only obvious part missing is the case feeder. Even the dreaded primer feed system is present and accounted for. The Little Dandy powder measure (and a couple of charge bars) were in a separate box and appear to be in like-new condition. Fortunately, RCBS put together a very detailed owners manual and parts list/diagram for this machine. This comes in super handy as there are apparently some where in the realm of 5,000 pieces to this beast (only a slight exaggeration).

    So, lets get started tearing this abomination apart!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Luckily, so far everything has broken free after a day or so of soaking with penetrating oil. There is a LOT of rust on the majority of the blued parts, but most don't seem to be pitted too badly. The paint is actually in pretty good condition. The plan is to give all the rusty bits a good soak in Evaporust and see what comes out. So into the magic elixir they go!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Which brings us up to date as of this morning. I'll keep updating this thread as this progresses. In the mean time, if anyone has one of these buried in their back yard or ready to gift as a white-elephant to your mother-in-law for Christmas, let me know. I might be interested in complete/incomplete machines and parts!

    DdB

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrondb View Post
    Once again, a large lot of rusty, crusty, and busted reloading equipment found its way back to my garage. Actually, there were/are some really nice pieces in the mix including a Star lube-sizer (brand new, never had lube in it), a LAM-II, sizing dies for both the Star and LAM, a bunch of Lyman molds, a nice Lyman pot, and die sets. Besides the Star sizer, what really caught my eye in the listing was a RCBS Green Machine in 38/357. Just to preface all this, I am fully aware of the horror stories that these machines leave in their wake. No fear, I have other RCBS and Dillon machines to keep the loaded rounds flowing. I've been on the look out for one of these machines for some time now as I have developed a sickness for tracking down and cleaning up old and interesting reloading equipment. The GM is just going to be a project/conversation piece, and, if I can get it working smoothly, all the better. Plus, for the $$ I spent on the whole lot, the casting and sizing equipment made me feel pretty good about the investment.

    So lets see what we're working with. The listing categorized the equipment as having "light surface rust"....

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GM rusty.jpg 
Views:	257 
Size:	42.0 KB 
ID:	209943 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GM rusty2.jpg 
Views:	256 
Size:	64.3 KB 
ID:	209946

    Well, that might have been a slight understatement. At least all the parts were mostly freely moving. The only obvious part missing is the case feeder. Even the dreaded primer feed system is present and accounted for. The Little Dandy powder measure (and a couple of charge bars) were in a separate box and appear to be in like-new condition. Fortunately, RCBS put together a very detailed owners manual and parts list/diagram for this machine. This comes in super handy as there are apparently some where in the realm of 5,000 pieces to this beast (only a slight exaggeration).

    So, lets get started tearing this abomination apart!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GM break down.jpg 
Views:	211 
Size:	70.5 KB 
ID:	209944

    Luckily, so far everything has broken free after a day or so of soaking with penetrating oil. There is a LOT of rust on the majority of the blued parts, but most don't seem to be pitted too badly. The paint is actually in pretty good condition. The plan is to give all the rusty bits a good soak in Evaporust and see what comes out. So into the magic elixir they go!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GM evaporust 1.jpg 
Views:	187 
Size:	71.3 KB 
ID:	209945

    Which brings us up to date as of this morning. I'll keep updating this thread as this progresses. In the mean time, if anyone has one of these buried in their back yard or ready to gift as a white-elephant to your mother-in-law for Christmas, let me know. I might be interested in complete/incomplete machines and parts!

    DdB
    That is quite a project! I would love to find one of those as a project myself!

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy map55b's Avatar
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    Get yourself some Evapo-Rust: https://www.evapo-rust.com/product-info/

    It is great for these kids of projects.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    You will want to talk to SEAGIANT, he has rebuilt and restored several of these and know how to make them run almost flawlessly!!!
    My hero's have always been Cowboys!

  5. #5
    Boolit Bub darrondb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by map55b View Post
    Get yourself some Evapo-Rust: https://www.evapo-rust.com/product-info/

    It is great for these kids of projects.
    See picture #4....Its already soaking!

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy map55b's Avatar
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    Nice darrondb! I didn't notice the evapo rust hiding in the back ground. I guess you agree that its good stuff?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Now I feel kinda bad about tossing mine in the recycle bin, it was missing some parts but was not rusted. Just not enough time for all the projects to in the queue.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub darrondb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    Now I feel kinda bad about tossing mine in the recycle bin, it was missing some parts but was not rusted. Just not enough time for all the projects to in the queue.
    Are you trying to make me cry???

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub darrondb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by map55b View Post
    Nice darrondb! I didn't notice the evapo rust hiding in the back ground. I guess you agree that its good stuff?
    I just started soaking last night, haven't had a chance to check in on it yet.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master OS OK's Avatar
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    That's pretty awesome! She's been 'rode hard and put up wet' but I think you'll get her back in order. These are the coolest presses, being made inline like this. Once you get her running and tuned all you have to do is keep her blown out from minor powder spills.
    I use Hornady 'One Shot' case lube to keep it running smooth and since the lube is a dry lube, it doesn't attract dust build-up.
    Looks like you have all the parts for the seating die, it's a cool die that you drop the cast into on top of the platen, I like that part.
    Looks too that the Lil Dandy powder engaging post and little switches are there too, at least the bottom of the Dandy, the adapter is still there.

    RCBS has limited parts left for them but they will gladly send for free whatever they have to help you.

    Before I got my seating die parts all located I put a regular seater on the platen just to get it loading ammo, I had to reach under the platen to insert the cast but it was fun anyway. Now I have it all together with the seating die you have there but I don't have it in a video yet configured this way.
    This is a short video of mine running using Lee 358-158-RNF's powder coated but since have dedicated the GM to making wadcutters exclusively...it can really whip them out and it's a pleasure to operate.
    I bring all the brass to the hopper 'pre-primed' so I can avoid the agravation of trying to prime onboard...the KISS principal will help you to enjoy yours.

    There are complete PDF files of the original pamphlet/directions for set-up and adjustment and operation along with a complete parts breakdown, this is online somewhere, can't remember where I found it but it didn't take very long searching. You'll find that file helpful.

    Here's my short video running it before it was complete for wadcutters but it ran like a champ!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq5z3atRsUo

    Might give you some inspiration.

    c h a r l i e

    EDIT: "Duuuh! Now I remember where I found the PDF file....mmmmm @ RCBS...geez, I'm gettin old!"

    http://rcbs.com/RCBS/media/RCBSMedia...EN_MACHINE.pdf
    Last edited by OS OK; 12-21-2017 at 06:24 PM.
    a m e r i c a n p r a v d a

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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Good for you!

    I bought one new about 40 years ago and was not intelligent enough to make it work reliably. I was lucky to have a friend who would let me load on his Star or Camdex. So it sat for many years unused.

    A few talented people have had some level of success running them. I am too demanding and spoiled. Life was better when I sold mine and got a Dillon 550.
    Don Verna


  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrondb View Post
    Are you trying to make me cry???
    Sorry, but I didn’t have time, I’ve got 5 or 6 other presses that need love, and the thing weighed a ton. Nevertheless, I regret tossing it and next time I’ll offer it up first.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master flashhole's Avatar
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    Tag - just want to follow this thread. I wish you success Darron.
    ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 Pat Lengyel (my wife) in a discussion about Liberals.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master oldhenry's Avatar
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    You're a brave man tackling that GM.
    I sold mine in the '80s & made sure the buyer was a total stranger.
    It took me a few years before I didn't have nightmares about it.........I'm recovered now.
    Your thread brings back memories..........I think I'll go hug my 550 Dillon before I go to bed tonight.

    Henry

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


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    Call RCBS they will fix it.

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub darrondb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geezer in NH View Post
    Call RCBS they will fix it.
    They actually won't...They only made these for a few years in the 80's and they were apparently a giant flop for RCBS. They took a lot of them back from dissatisfied customers. Last I heard, they only have very limited parts left for them.

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub darrondb's Avatar
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    Update 1 (Christmas progress):

    Greetings all! Hope everyone had a Merry Christmas and was able to spend time with loved ones. We got our first snow of the season this weekend so spent most of it indoors with the little kids. I actually spent a fair amount of time in the garage (most of it working on the wifes vehicle) so was able to make a bit of progress on the good old GM.

    So far, the only issue with disassembly was removing the main shaft. Enough rust had built up over time and the tolerances are tight enough that it wouldn't slip out. I didn't want to hammer on it too hard and risk breaking the casting. After a bit of work with some strips of sand paper, the rust came off and it slipped out.

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    Here's all the parts after soaking in the Evaporust for 24 hours:

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    So far, I'm super impressed! It takes a bit of time and needs a bit of encouragement with a wire brush or steel wool to break off the larger rust chunks, but it eats the fine rust right up. I'm gradually working through polishing all the parts. I'm a bit disappointed that there is quite a bit of pitting on some of the parts and I don't think I'll be able to polish all of it out without losing too much metal.

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    Here's all the guts so far with a pre-Evaporust picture for comparison.

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    My next steps are to polish all the bare metal parts (I'm going to attempt to blue them) and clean up the castings and try to avoid damaging the paint. We're making progress! Now just to survive this short work week and get back to it next weekend!

    Ddb

  18. #18
    Boolit Master MyFlatline's Avatar
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    Man that rust eating stuff did a job. Cool project...

  19. #19
    Boolit Master oldhenry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrondb View Post
    They actually won't...They only made these for a few years in the 80's and they were apparently a giant flop for RCBS. They took a lot of them back from dissatisfied customers. Last I heard, they only have very limited parts left for them.
    At least you're going in to the project with your eyes wide open. The actual workmanship on the GM was good. The design was the problem. They focused everything on not using a vertical tubular primer magazine. The advertising literature pronounced the vertical magazine a hazard & their unique system did away with that awful hazard (their later primer strips accomplished this). My memory is not clear as to whether they ever used a vertical magazine in subsequent designs.........I was no longer interested in any progressive machine they produced.

    The 2nd. problem was the jerky horizontal movement of the cartridges........powder spills were common.

    For me the 3rd. problem was the fact that once you had a problem the problem was compounded by the fact that there was no provision for removing an individual cartridge @ a particular stage. This fact was forever etched onto my little Teflon brain & is the reason I have a Dillon 550 & not a 650 (I like manual advance).

    To give credit where credit is due, their customer service was great. I had many phone conversations with Jay Postman (a real gentleman) & he tried to help. I even sent it back to them to "calibrate". It was no better when it returned. About 2 years after I sold mine @ a gun show for $100.00 (I hope I don't ever meet that fellow again) RCBS sent out a post card to original owners of GM giving them a special price on a 2nd machine (I think it was $125.00.......may have been $225.00). They did this because they had advertised it as being easily changed over to another caliber & realized that any change over was not as easy as expected. I wrote back that I wasn't interested in one @ $25.00 & went further to say they were only useful as a boat anchor.

    Jay Postman calls me a few days later & says "Henry, I take it you're not happy with the GM". To make a long story shorter he paid me the difference between the purchase price & the $100.00 I sold it for & the payment was based entirely on my word. You can't ask for anything better.

    I didn't mean to ramble.

    Henry


    [/U]
    Last edited by oldhenry; 12-26-2017 at 11:47 AM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master flashhole's Avatar
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    That's quite a testament to their Customer Service. I'm rooting for the home team and hope he gets it back in service but I do appreciate the detailed explanation of the design flaws. I don't own a progressive press of any color and don't want one.
    ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 Pat Lengyel (my wife) in a discussion about Liberals.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check